I don't disagree, the point I was trying to make was that the Quins comparison is not really a good one due to the locations of the two clubs and the length of their existence.

You make my point so much better

I wouldnt blame any club for filling the quota according to the rules that is not the issue here is it?

Surely the constant request of dispensation to try to cater for yet more overseas players is the issue and one were the RFL are more then likely about to 'expand' the boundaries of the current rule to allow this. i am sure on the back of this happening other clubs will naturally follow suit and the number of overseas players playing super league will increase significantly.

Very much against the stance of a couple of years ago were the reduction of overseas players was clearly an issue hence the quota reductions.

All clubs agreed this at the time and subsequently seem hell bent on finding ways around it!

to remind Mrs Barista that she said the signing would more 'understandable' if Galea was not counted on the quota.

If Hull KR do this, they will be 'guilty' of looking at the short-term. As long as that isn't all they are looking at, it isn't a major problem.
IMPO we don't need to use another quota spot on a prop. I can't see any good ooc uk options for stand-off though. Hell, even Sykes has been re-signed by the Bulls. As for Galea, somebody is going to take advantage of his fed-qualification, that much is obvious. It may as well be us. Or maybe somebody will make him a better offer and we'll keep Chev Walker in his place. Whatever the club decides is best - the path to the first team is similar for Scott Taylor and the rest.

Is that the long way of telling me if this dispensation happens Hull FC would take advantage of it?



I know they would and I wouldnt like the fact that they will regardless of the quality of the player brought in.

When the clubs agreed on the reduction of the overseas quota gradually over a number of years everyone said this would be great for the English game etc, etc when all that seems to have happened is that ALL clubs simply find loopholes to get the players they want regardless!

I know at the end of the day Justin Morgan for example will be judged on were HKR are sitting in the league table and not by how many Hull born players have made first grade but it is all very short term and not helping our International chances. (This applies to every SL coach/team btw

)

I wonder how many English players have fallen by the wayside simply because they havent been given that first team chance, who knows if a player can play super league level until given the opportunity?

Sort of. The dispensation is granted to the player in this instance, not the club. Any club can take advantage of the situation.




As this batch of overseas players ages and retires the loophole will close. The shift in the economic balance of power to the NRL might make the whole discussion moot very soon.



One assumes those not given a chance weren't as good as G. Horne, T. Lee, C. I'anson or K. Netherton, never mind Peter Cusack or Jake Webster. We could certainly have more British players in SL, but I doubt a new Ellery Hanley would end up on the scrapheap. It is not quantity in SL that prevents us putting out a 17 strong enough to compete with Australia. The scale of the sport there, relative to here, is why we struggle to compete. France in turn struggle to compete with England. Quotas won't get us competing with Oz - only money and long-term and wider public interest will do that. Catch-22 though, as how do you generate that interest without a vibrant and competitive international game?

If we were willing gamble everything on a single roll of the dice, we could [ugive[/u the TV rights to the BBC or ITV, in an exchange for national coverage, in the hope of raising interest and lots of advertising revenue. It'd require expansion franchises and mergers in the heartlands, in a push to make it a truly national sport, which'd be deeply unpalatable to many.

Not so sure it would. At the risk of going way OT with this; Union is huge internationally and there's plenty of places who don't have top level club on their doorstep. It's generally because the BBC show it and make a big deal out of it. I know loads of people in Hull who like watching England RU, might even head down to Twickenham a couple of times a year, but probably couldn't name a union club. Sale and Newcastle are the only semi-big union clubs in the whole of the north of England, so I actually think the desperation to expand and fast track at club level in RL is unnecessary.

People in Aldershot don't just support, watch and attend England football games because Aldershot FC exists. It's all about national exposure when it comes to international sport. More people watch curling in this country than England RL FFS. Why? Because the BBC put it on.

Hull are obviously following the early era of London Rugby League here....Quins no longer the foreign hotbed of rugby league!

I agree with a lot of that. I think we have a really good product to promote at club level and that would be our 'in' rather than RU (cricket too), were the situation is more the other way around, with international game being dominant.
However, 'Half the teams are in Yorkshire', sounds terrible to Southern (and therefore most media) ears, I imagine. In fairness if we were being introduced to a new sport and half the teams were in Essex or Warwickshire, it'd sound a bit small time to us. Catalans, Crusaders and Quins would be invaluable in this situation. If we could poach Bristol from RU and maybe get something in the midlands, that'd be pretty attractive. All pie in the sky and way off topic!

Don't get me wrong, Catalans, Crusaders and Quins [iare[/i invaluable, and to varying degrees all have been successful. I'm not anti-expansion by any means, I'm just not convinced spreading the sport at club level geographically has much bearing on TV viewing, and attendance figures at international level.

If I was the RFL I'd reject sky's money for internationals and do everything I could to get as many England games as possible (at least those against Australia and New Zealand) on terrestrial TV. That in turn would increase the coverage and exposure, get more people interested in the sport, in general and at club level, more kids playing the sport, maybe then more expansion clubs.

I'm convinced for example Quins would stand a better chance of getting more people through the turnstiles if the national team was given more exposure. I just don't think the RFL have the balls to say no to Sky's cash or stand up and fight for airtime with the bbc.

England vs New Zealand would be a great spectacle to get people interested. Getting regularly battered by the Australians isn't going to have the same attraction. Nor will thumping Wales or France.
Actually, after watching that Matt Damon/Morgan Freeman film on the '95 RUWC, a colleague of mine started watching a bit of RU on Sky - he'd only ever been interested in football before. To save his soul, I recommended he watch Wigan vs Warrington, which happily turned out to be a cracker. He asked a bit about International RL (his ignornance is perfectly understandable in Leicester), and I did struggle to put a positive spin on it.
Keeping foreigners out isn't even half the problem. We need to get more kids involved. The 8 club-trained rule gives them more of a chance, but doesn't itself increase the pool of talent available. Smokey often talks about looking harder or spreading the net more widely to find talent, and on this I agree with him. To be effective certain structures have to be put in place and plenty of good work has been done in this area. Without more money and media exposure there is a limit to what can be achieved - it is probably short of us overhauling Eastern Australia, as things stand.
Kind of back on topic.

Is the difference the amount of grass root clubs, then? I grew up in Ormskirk which is very near St Helens (hence my allegence) and Wigan, but I played rugby union. i played it at school and then joined the local club when I left and managed 10 years of 1st team before I retired last year. So I obviously will take an iterest in the big RU internationals.
Where I now live in Liverpool, I can think of 3 RU clubs in a stones throw (Sefton, Liverpool Collegiete and Mossley Hill) and a couple more in the surrounding area. I've played games of RU in St helens (Ruskin Park, LSH & West Park), in Wigan (Wigan RU and the Orrell Anvils, who are now all that's left of the Orrell Club) as well as Warrington and Widnes.
The vast increase in grass roots being played in the london area will go a long way to increasing our profile in the face of other sports and is the key to promoting us, but its a long term plan.

good thread this, quite rare to see a sensible discussion between mainly hull and rovers supporters. as far as im concerned i dont have a problem with rovers or any other club doing this as long as its in the rules. the rfl can't bleat about clubs having too many overseas players if they create the rules whereby clubs can take advantage of certain loopholes. if they are serious about the international game they should put the ground rules in place to prevent clubs taking on too many overseas players.
and its also interesting that as the aussie dollar strenghtens against the pound, less of the 'average' players want to come over anyway.

the other point about the overseas vs homegrown debate is of course that the aussies don't have anything like the amount of young sportsmen 'lost' to football as we do over here

can i just say that rovers have contributed to youth players turning pro such as ian kirke leeds john wilkin saints paul cooke wakefield before i get slated he was a rovers youth until hull offered him better terms kirk yeamen also rovers youth because he went with his brother but again snapped up by hull whelam at rovers watts rovers ellis at quins netherton at castleford so dont say rovers havent had good enough youth just they cant hold on to every one and hope they are good enough can they get a grip people we have been in superleague for 4 seasons not 14 like some teams so our set up is no where near as good as some but we are getting there so lay off

Is this the monkeys first attempt at shakespeare?

Dont waste your breath mate...let the children have their fun

yea your probably right the green eyed monsters cant stand it can they lol

Are the no amateur teams in hull? No teams to supply the respective academies? Hull KR, that is just embarassing but Hull FC arent exactly great either, unless you are a tongan or over the age of 35

IDIOT.

Watts is from Cas. Do not try and claim him as your own.

so what he come through as a academy player.

you are claiming fans and players who came through at other clubs as players developed by Hull KR, what absolute nonsense.

as for you being in SL for only 4 seasons and not having the academy to bring through the necessary players yet, it doesnt explain why Hull KR needed to bring in Rhys Lovegrove instead of a player like Kyle Amor, Ben Fisher instead of a player like Bob Beswick, why you arent giving a go to a player like Danny Allen

there isnt an excuse to immediately go abroad, why pretend you dont have other options, you do, there are young players not quite getting a game at some SL clubs, and some decent players in the lower leagues.

Kyle amor was poached by leeds! ben fisher played for rovers before super league!!! dim witted or what

He wasnt poached, he was signed from the lower leagues, which was the point you bloody idiot!. Why arent you going out and signing young talented players from the lower leagues of this country instead of the lower leagues in Australia?

and what does it matter when you signed Ben Fisher, you have been in SL for 4 years now, you have ample opportunity to replace him.