Least in the old setup there was a glimmer of an outsider in play offs causing a shock.

I remember Catalan nearly doing it. Granted we saw more blow outs then competitive games but there was a chance.

If we had straight play offs people would be calling Castleford the dark horses as they can beat anyone on there day.

Instead we have a cas side who will win games but won't actually get anywhere. I understand the argument that they should have been better in regular season but it just seems like the super 8's is a waste of time outside the top 5.

The problem with the old set up was that when the business time came, the big sides stepped up and blew the others away most of the time. This would be negated by improving the bottom of SL and bringing it up to the level of the top of SL.

But that is hard. So we tried bringing down the top of SL to the bottom, that didnt really work because even as wages equalised, big clubs could offer success, something others couldnt.

So when we decided that was to hard we gave up trying to improve standards and brought this nonsense in with the idea being if we keep pretending that there is something to play for people wouldnt notice that largely they werent playing for anything of any importance and the play-offs are now over before they have even really started.

As far as bringing the top down to the bottom, Leeds did really well this season

We have been utterly, utterly terrible this year. Yet have just beaten the top team in successive weeks. The standard of the entire league this year has been atrocious.

The playoffs don't start for another 7 weeks.

Erm, well done on counting i guess.

While you are at it, can you tell us how long they last?

I don't agree with this point. Either the status quo is maintained (they don't get promoted)...or they get promoted - happy days! Any club that doesn't have contingency to cover the worst case scenario isn't being run properly, but that's not down to any format that's down to the club, if they are poorly run things will go wrong regardless of the format.

The whole 'not knowing whether you're going up or not' thing will happen in any which way if you have a league with promotion and relegation. Does that mean you are advocating the ol' franchising thing?

Leeds have played terribly this season, but that's in part down to the quality of some of the opposition. Widnes and cas both finished in mid table yet played like state of origin teams and put 50 on us.

hhj

Yep I'm advocating franchising.

And what you've said just isn't the case, last year a Wakey player, Scott Moore I think said after the MPG said it was so massive because players didn't know if they'd have jobs the next day if they didn't win. Are you suggesting that clubs can look to develop (something all RL fans suggests needs to happen) and get better with the shortfalls that potential relegation threatens.

Similarly do you think the likes of Leigh or Bradford stretch the wage budget this late in the day (Leigh signed Tickle and a couple of others right before the eights) or teams like Leeds and Saints or Wakey would resort to bringing an overseas player over rather than trying a kid.

Conversely look at the teams who have a chance of coming up, particularly London and Leigh (id have put Bradford in here if they'd have made it). They are made up of players already deemed not good enough for SL, they're not developing their own players, and can't afford to invest the time if they want to get up under the current system.

Imo this system of promotion is the ultimate short termism, we wouldn't get it with franchising, I don't think.

I can see why Rules wants the points resetting now, and there's still 10 mins to go

He'd do better to zero the score. Could be an interesting 10 mins if Hull's lead was cancelled out.

Interesting spin by the BBC on a few casual comments James Rule made when asked what he thought of the Super 8 format in a recent local radio interview.

You lot sucked it up like good 'uns.

Get back in your prams.

Looky what we have here! Someone is claiming franchising is the answer again! We've had that rodeo bud. Everyone said it sterilized the game and gave championship teams no hope and half the super league teams sod all to play for.

It's back to that whole point I made about about criticizing the present format and harping back to one that was previously criticized. Round and round we go.

When we have franchising it's terrible, the poor super league teams have nothing to play for because they aren't fighting for survival. When we have P%R....OH NO! Some super league teams don't know where they'll be next season, the instability is terrible.

2 weeks

Spot on, same happens wi regards England playing mid-season games.

We should have a Roses match......oh we should get rid it's no good

We should have a game vs Wales or France.....oh we should get rid as its no competitive

We should have a game against the best overseas guys in SL......oh we should get rid as the overseas guys coming over aren't as good as they were several years ago.

We should have a Roses match..........

For someone who was banned from sport not that long ago, id reckon he is very careful about what he says and does when getting interviewed by the media.

Hull FC much better off without him in my opinion. Still not sure why Widnes ever took him on.

But that's what I'm trying to get across, it doesn't have to be a closed door which sterilised the game as you've put it. If the criteria were clear and achievable and strictly enforced by the RFL then in fact the door could be wide open with teams clearly knowing what they have to do to get in. This in return allows them to build for that and have a better long term chance at SL rather than a one off shot where yes, they might get up, but barring a miracle they'll find themselves in exactly the same dogfight next year.

Furthermore it doesn't matter to me if lower placed teams have nothing to play for at this point, that's because they've not been good enough, but I don't believe the constant threat of relegation will ever make them good enough either.

I believe the problem we had last time round was not franchising itself, but how it was administered.

And yes I'd also like midseason internationals, but that would also require it being stuck with long term.

But is that a problem with A) the concept or B) the fans and weak minded RFL who listen to them?

IMO franchising is the answer if done correctly. Strict rules need to be in place for it to work and a governng body who has the balls to enforce them.

When licencing was brought in and Widnes didn't get one, this bitter set of fans and the club were cry-ar*ing and demanding rules were changed to suit them. Now they are finally in SL but miles behind the top 5 they are again moaning and wanting changes to give them a chance of reaching the GF.

All start on nil points after 23 games?? What's that all about??

Widnes, however, know all about 'nil points' though having already been nilled at home twice this season. No way are they anywhere near good enough to get to Old Trafford, even if everyone started on zero.

Correct

Correct!