It'll also include laundry staff, cleaners, caterers, groundstaff, admin, press/PR etc etc.

Which bit?

Administration might help trim costs, but the bigger immediate problem is the lack of cash coming in. Nearly all of the gate money has been received up front in the form of cheap seson tickets. An Administrator would struggle to keep the club going for the rest of this season.

wont include stewards as I bet they are contracted and also the same for caterers, surprised if thats not contracted.

Last time I saw Saints had about 90 staff at the most week to week that includes coaches, playing staff, etc....

Not sure about how they do it in the new stadium, possibly considerably more due to size and operation size which seems double the old place at least generally.

Even taking into account caterers, admin, press/PR etc it still seems a large number. Unless they're including match day people like turnstile operators and stewards. But most of those roles are contracted out these days.
It's just at Headingley there's around 90 non-matchday staff (including Foundation and Board Directors) that service 2 clubs plus some Yorkshire Cricket functions.
It might be ok, it just struck me as a lot the first time I saw the number.

Yes they did but after the Celtic fiasco they had the sense to cover their own backs this time.


Bradford-Grade B
''Bradford Bulls provided a solid submission detailing a strategy, tactical plan and targets to achieve improved commercial and financial performance. The club has a solid fan base, a strong brand and good operating structure/governance in place. However the club faces some challenges. These include the local economic environment, poor recent on-field performance and an ageing facility. The application acknowledges these challenges; however the club believes that its business plan for the next three years will move it to a position of sustainability with good prospects for further growth. The club has invested heavily in its youth performance programme in recent years, and it is expected that the club will soon start to reap the rewards of this investment with improved performances and increased numbers of quality club-trained players.''

It does look that way doesn't it? In an amazing act of foresight, the RFL may have a) prevented the Bulls biggest asset from being sold by the administrator, b) prevented The Predator from picking up the club from admin for a song, for his own evil ends and c) made sure that the phoenix company that runs Bradford post-admininstration has a Grade B, 'iconic' stadium to play out of.

Equally, signing new players and/or handing long contracts to existing players in recent months could be seen as a way of inflating their value in preparation for the inevitable collapse and subsequent fire sale.

Well that’s my take on it.

The RFL have known for ages that Bradford are in the mire, they’ve bought Odsal to protect it from the creditors, so I presume the only assets that can be picked over are the players.

Get ready for the vulture clubs homing in on the prize assets.

Pledging money to the current regime is madness. It's the same reason why WTW fans wouldn't pledge money to the Richardson regime, it's good money after bad.

I think Caisley chose to leave at the top rather than pushed out, he knew where this was going to end.

If he is touting your players he's doing a poor job considering how Bradford have been spending very big indeed on Juniors right up until this week.

It could be true it just doesn't ring true for the reasons given.

Six of one, half a dozen of another as I understand it.

It doesn't really matter, the point was Caisley has very little to do with the Bulls these days. He's a shareholder still but a reluctant one. It's not exactly an investment. I wouldn't be too keen to gift Caisley the power of foresight either, he being the Ahab figure who signed Harris to spite Leeds.

The point is that if anyone wants to act out their revenge fantasies against Caisley then the Bulls would be a pretty ty vehicle for that.



I can see how the latter precludes the former. There are no fallacies in your thinking there.

Bettings on a bumper Bondi beach Burgess brothers BBQ!

Forgive me, but I have not read the whole thread but wanted to post my thoughts here as well as previously on the WT board.

I think prominent Bulls posters and fans should strongly consider the option of urging fans NOT to support this measure and not give up some of their hard earned cash for the longer term good of the club.

Through my support of Newmarket & my friendships with Sandal, TRB and others prominent fans of Trinity, I accidental (for want of a better word) got a neutrals ring-side seat of the issues at Trinity and both what the fans and old management went through in trying to secure the future of the club, but also the future of the then current owners/management! I am not going to get into the whole Ted Richardson debate, as my personal dealings with Ted have always been friendly, open, honest and amicable, but it became clear to these closely involved fans that sticking your hand in your pocket might not be the best way to secure the long term future of the club because the management of that club are effectively responsible for the club being in that position in the first place (again, with all due respect to Ted). These Trinity fans in the main decided that the time had come to, unfortunately and regrettably that said, not to bail out the current management but to seek a fresh start even though in the short term that was going to be very painful and possibly even condemning themselves to lower league RL... but with a fresh start and fresh management!

I think anyone would now struggle to argue that that was not the correct decision. The club has a fresh, dynamic owner, no debt, a bright future and is most importantly being managed sustainably!

I think Bulls fans should keep their hands in their pockets with their money and prepare to take the club forward with a fresh future, even possibly outside of SL, than see your money almost certainly disappear down the drain with the existing management of the club!

Let me start by saying as a Saints fans I want the Bulls in superleague and it will be lost fans and a PR fiasco if the Bulls die.

I make my living sorting out struggling businesses in this type of mess. Im not an insolvency guy - I work with them to SAVE businesses.

If I had one piece of advice for the fans pledge your money to Bullbuilder ( which I believe is the supporters trust) or form something to represent your interests at this stage. Dont give the club a penny.

I think a lot of people will bag the board but this very much sounds like the bank have pulled the overdraft even more than the RFL wanting their money back quick. Its happening a lot.

Lots of companies trade with debt its lack of cashflow that kills them.

If it is potentially a viable business long term, then the club should be immediately talking to Insolvency guys about a CVA which effectively is a formal agreement with creditors to repay debts up to 5 years and often at reduced terms.

Unlike an admin the directors retain control, it still gives you breathing space and it can cost nowt to set up.

The only problem I see is if the club is still in the CVA when licenses get reviewed.

Not viable its administration or liquidation

I hate to see administrators appointed at sports clubs as they inevitably burn staff and charge big fees.

Liquidation aint nice but really you dont fall that far in RL and I dont think it would take much to be in the mix for the next round of licences.

You would be debt free. But all those 10K season tickets are null and void and you lose super League.

Bradford Steam Pigs has a nice ring to it and at some stage you could buy back the bulls brand for a song.

For now I know what I would be saying to the directors but I couldn't possibly put it on here.

But to put this plea in the public domain is at best naive. I`ve never seen it. Usually any pleas for cash are at the point where a club is being wound up in court.

Theres a lot more to come out on this.

Let's say the Bulls manage to get their hands on £500k, pronto.

What's to stop the current directors using that money to repay any loans they've made to the club, then placing it into administration and walking away, leaving the rest of the creditors to fight it out with the administrators?

The previous owner of WTW did exactly the same thing just over 12 months ago, but with more emotive language; essentially, I've put my money where my mouth is for ten years, now it's your turn.

Unsurprisingly, it failed.

Sporties - you seem to know a bit about this kind of thing so can I ask if Bradford still held the lease to Odsal would that have been an asset likely to have been sold if the club went into admin?
I'm assuming it definitely would be if the club were liquidated.

No need to be sarky, yes your right it doesn't but I have seen no evidence of Bradford leaching players have you. Juniors are usually the most vulnerable and the point I was making is you don't seem to be losing them to other SL clubs in any great numbers. As I said if anything you have strengthened in that area.

They would be preferring themselves as creditors - its a massive no no and could be clawed back personally into the pot.

All I was saying there was that Chris Caisley, as a player's agent, has been personally involved in some of the bigger transfers away from the club. That's both the beginning and end of what I said.

Feel sick to my stomach. I've been lied to and I've bought it too.

I can only hope we'll have a club to watch for the rest of the season.

as a fax fan i hope that bradford pull through for their fans, the loyal ones i mean, the ones that buy season tickets whether there £10 or £200. not the ones that have jumped on board for a cheap ride recently.

also as a fax fan i would expect a full report from the RFL as to how the Bulls were given a grade B licence!

surley this was all written in black and white for these so called experts to see??!!

Dont for one minute think i am suggesting Fax should be in SL,

we are not ready yet. but by the looks of it, we were more ready than Bradford were when the licences were handed out!

Crazy world aint it?!

I really want to answer this question but can`t really in the public domain as I dont know the facts.

IPs sell assets in liquidations and also in administration.

Now sold its a liability not an asset. i.e. You have agreed to pay x amount for x years.

At what point do the RFL begin to consider the much publicised right to remove a franchise from a club which is failing to meet the promises made in its franchise application?

I have to add that I got a sick sinking feeling when this mornings news confirmed the rumours about Bradford being in trouble. I sympathise with the Bradford fans, they're experiencing the heartbreak that Wakefield fans went through a year or so ago.

I hope it doesn't mean the end of The Bulls and that somehow they can be saved from being torn apart as a club. None of this is good news for anyone who truly loves Rugby League!

I'm with Inflatable Armidillo with regard to the pledges, in the case of Wakefield Trinity there were just too many unknowns about the amount of debt, too few details about how the money would be spent & not enough assurances regarding how long the club would survive even if the money was raised.

We insisted that any funds pledged to the club were held in an ESCROW account thus ensuring that the money was protected from an Administrator and that it could be repaid to fans if the club folded or redirected to help resurrect a new Wakefield Trinity, this is essential.

Bradford have a strong Supporters Trust and the fans should rally to them to act as their voice throughout this!

Tough times ahead so stick together
Good luck!

This would require [icretum testiculus[/i

Forget it ...................