|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SmokeyTA"So why waste one of our limited international dates on a made up side?'"
Because the England team will get more out of it than they will against a second tier nation. That is the long and the short of it.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"They can do that now. '"
So why haven't they then? Until that happens, they won't be anywhere near us so there's no point playing them yet if we are looking for a "competitive" game.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"im not, you are. I dont think that a game against a mid-season contrived side will improve us for international competition. I think playing France is international competition. You seem to be arguing that playing against better teams mid-season will improve teams, but wont accept that a game against france does the same thing for them.'"
Playing a better team will help you to improve. I accept that. I don't think it will help France improve much however (which I have said), and it could do more damage off the field by losing interest in a game that is a foregone conclusion.
However, you are the one that doesn't seem to be able to accept that playing a better team will improve you. France playing England (a better team) will improve France, but England playing the All-Stars (potentially a better team, and certainly a better team than France) won't improve England? You've said that.
If you're going to say playing France will improve France because they're playing better opposition, you need to say the same about England playing the All-Stars.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"This mid-season game will in no way benefit us against the Aussies. Frankly it smacks of pandering. It seems like the action of someone looking for excuses because they dont have the answers. I we put in place the infrastructure we need, throughout the game, we will beat the Aussies. A mid-season game against a RoW x111 will have no influence on it. We would be better placed either playing actual international competition against france or Wales, or having a full on event, which is enjoyed for what it is. '"
But a mid-season international for France against us will help France improve? I don't get how it can be one way but not the other?
Quote ="SmokeyTA"They played at end of season. How bloody arrogant do you want to be? France and Wales, two nations we want to invest in the game and grow have to earn the right to play against England! Christ there are 5 nations with a fully pro side and you want to cast 2 of them aside because they dont meet your standards.'"
It's not arrogance at all, it's common sense if you have a limited number of fixtures to play games! Why aren't we playing both? Is it arrogant that we didn't play Wales last year? They're at a different level of the game to us. That isn't arrogance, that's fact. Otherwise, why don't we play Italy, Scotland and Ireland whilst we're at it? Or better yet, Germany in fact? Because both teams would get very very little from the game.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"France v England in their last competitive game was 34-12, Our last competitive game against Australia finished 34-14. '"
But we're not talking about replacing a competitive game so it's irrelevant.
The last mid-season friendly we played against the Aussies was 64-10. Did we play against them again mid-season?
If France (or Wales or anyone else) qualify to play competitive games, then we might see a better game. But a friendly against them hasn't proven to be a good contest.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Our last three results against Aus, 34-14, 46-16, 52-4
Frances last three results against us 60-6 34-12 66-12
Lets just hope Australia dont show us the same lack of respect.'"
Does it get good crowds and TV ratings? Does it bring money in? Do we beat the them every now and again? Is there other value to the international game here?
A mid-season test against France gets little interest, poor crowds, next to no media coverage, and the result is ALWAYS a drubbing. There is little benefit to the international game, and little benefit to England. At the end of the day, if we are organising friendlies for the sake of helping England's preparations, we need something that benefits England.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Because its international competition. Its the reason national teams exist.'"
So France playing England is international competition, but France playing Wales isn't?
That hasn't explained one thing.
Why can't France play Wales instead of England?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="LEEDSLEADS."The same could be said about Sam Tomkins who has performed awfully in the real tests.'"
I thought Sam Tomkins played well for England, and definitely did in 2009.
| | | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="poplar panther"Couldn't England play a combined Hull Antipodeans side, the will easily have enough players!'"
Hull FC only have 5 overseas players. So unless Rovers have as many as 12, it wouldn't be possible!
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1854 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| 1 Greenshields
2 Monaghan
3 Delaney
4 King
5 Richards
6 Chase
7 Dobson
8 Perry
9 Randall
10 O'Meley
11 Menzies
12 Hoffman
13 O'Donnell
14 L'Estrange
15 Puletua
16 Cashmere
17 O'Hara
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| England team vs the All-Stars:
1. Sam Tomkins (Wig), 2. Ryan Hall (Lee), 3. Michael Shenton (St H), 4. Chris Bridge (War), 5. Tom Briscoe (Hul), 6. Danny McGuire (Lee), 7. Kyle Eastmond (St H), 8. James Graham (St H), 9. James Roby (St H), 10. Jamie Peacock (Lee), 11. Gareth Ellis (W Ti), 12. Sam Burgess (SSR), 13. Sean O'Loughlin (Wig).
14. Ben Westwood (War), 15. Adrian Morley (War), 16. Eorl Crabtree (Hud), 17. Luke Robinson (Hud).
All-Stars team vs England (if it's an open selection):
1. Brent Webb (Lee), 2. Joel Monaghan (War), 3. Matt King (War), 4. Iosia Soliola (St H), 5. Pat Richards (Wig), 6. Brett Finch (Wig), 7. Thomas Leuluai (Wig), 8. Jeff Lima (Wig), 9. Danny Buderus (Lee), 10. Mark O'Meley (Hul), 11. Ryan Hoffman (Wig), 12. Tony Puletua (St H), 13. Craig Fitzgibbon (Hul).
14. Josh Perry (St H), 15. Willie Mason (HKR), 16. David Fa'alogo (Hud), 17. Michael Monaghan (War)
All-Stars team vs England (if it's 2 per team max):
1. Brent Webb (Lee), 2. Joel Monaghan (War), 3. Setaimata Sa (Cat), 4. Iosia Soliola (St H), 5. Matt King (War), 6. Rangi Chase (Cas), 7. Michael Dobson (HKR), 8. Jeff Lima (Wig), 9. Danny Buderus (Lee), 10. Mark O'Meley (Hul), 11. Willie Mason (HKR), 12.David Fa'alogo (Hud), 13. Craig Fitzgibbon (Hul).
14. Josh Perry (St H), 15. Iafeta Palea'aesina (Sal) , 16. Luke O'Donnell (Hud), 17. Thomas Leuluai (Wig).
| | | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I like the idea of the England Knights as well (Knights is a nickname that I have previously suggested for the England first team, playing on the St George mascot, but it appears we are going along the line of other English sports by having a nickname for the second team, which is fair enough).
I'm guessing they will only play at the end of the season. I would suggest that they play in the same part of the world as the first team are playing, which could work out quite well.
Example, when England are playing in the Northern Hemisphere (4N with Eng, Aus, NZ and Euro Champs), the Knights play in the European competition in place of the European Cup winners (who will be in the 4N).
When England play in the Southern Hemisphere (4N with Eng, Aus, NZ and the Pacific Champs), the Knights play in the Pacific competition in place of the Pacific Cup winners.
Keeps the balance then, and makes use of the Euro and Pacific competitions that don't have a prize for winning them every other year. And also allows us to have backup players ready to step straight up to the England first team (and allows our unused players to keep playing competitive games). It's a good initiative.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17226 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2019 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wellsy13"I like the idea of the England Knights as well (Knights is a nickname that I have previously suggested for the England first team, playing on the St George mascot, but it appears we are going along the line of other English sports by having a nickname for the second team, which is fair enough).
I'm guessing they will only play at the end of the season. I would suggest that they play in the same part of the world as the first team are playing, which could work out quite well.
Example, when England are playing in the Northern Hemisphere (4N with Eng, Aus, NZ and Euro Champs), the Knights play in the European competition in place of the European Cup winners (who will be in the 4N).
When England play in the Southern Hemisphere (4N with Eng, Aus, NZ and the Pacific Champs), the Knights play in the Pacific competition in place of the Pacific Cup winners.
Keeps the balance then, and makes use of the Euro and Pacific competitions that don't have a prize for winning them every other year. And also allows us to have backup players ready to step straight up to the England first team (and allows our unused players to keep playing competitive games). It's a good initiative.'" That's a horrible idea. Why are you so keen to have non-international teams playing in international tournaments?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="headhunter"That's a horrible idea. Why are you so keen to have non-international teams playing in international tournaments?'"
England Knights aren't an international team?
Last time I checked, they are a representative team from one nation. They may not be the first team, but they are a team.
They don't have to be a part of the tournament. They could just be playing friendlies on the bye-weekends. England 'A' used to play in the Euro Nations tournament.
| | | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17226 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2019 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wellsy13"England Knights aren't an international team?
Last time I checked, they are a representative team from one nation. They may not be the first team, but they are a team.
They don't have to be a part of the tournament. They could just be playing friendlies on the bye-weekends. England 'A' used to play in the Euro Nations tournament.'"
No, as you say they are a representative team rather than an international team. I've got no issue with them playing a couple of friendlies in the build up to the Euro Cup if teams want a tougher challenge, but they can't be part of the tournament.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 2164 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2014 | Dec 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wellsy13"I like the idea of the England Knights as well (Knights is a nickname that I have previously suggested for the England first team, playing on the St George mascot, but it appears we are going along the line of other English sports by having a nickname for the second team, which is fair enough).
I'm guessing they will only play at the end of the season. I would suggest that they play in the same part of the world as the first team are playing, which could work out quite well.
Example, when England are playing in the Northern Hemisphere (4N with Eng, Aus, NZ and Euro Champs), the Knights play in the European competition in place of the European Cup winners (who will be in the 4N).
When England play in the Southern Hemisphere (4N with Eng, Aus, NZ and the Pacific Champs), the Knights play in the Pacific competition in place of the Pacific Cup winners.
Keeps the balance then, and makes use of the Euro and Pacific competitions that don't have a prize for winning them every other year. And also allows us to have backup players ready to step straight up to the England first team (and allows our unused players to keep playing competitive games). It's a good initiative.'"
I very much like the sound of this - it adds England Knights as an extra competitive team in each competition and exposes the next tier of potential England players to the international game and get used to training/playing with each other
Do we know if the Knights will have any selection restrictions - an under 23/s side would allow the players who have excelled in Academy games over the past few years a next step on the ladder?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="headhunter"No, as you say they are a representative team rather than an international team. I've got no issue with them playing a couple of friendlies in the build up to the Euro Cup if teams want a tougher challenge, but they can't be part of the tournament.'"
An international team is a representative team that represents a nation. The Knights represent England. They are an international team.
The latter comment is fine. Just depends what the tournament is. I don't see why they couldn't compete in a European Championship and leave the Euro Cup as a separate tournament (I do think it's a bit daft that the European Cup is called that when one of the teams in it are in the 4N and there's no qualification on the line. It's a different tournament really).
When they go down under, they could play the Aussie and Kiwi 'A' teams as well.
| | | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wellsy13"Because the England team will get more out of it than they will against a second tier nation. That is the long and the short of it.'" The England team will get nothing out of it. It wont do anything. Its a team against a made-up team. While you may wish to pretend that this made up team will have massive pride in their jersey, they wont. It will be seen as a kick about. It wont, in anyway help in the players find that next level you need to find to compete with NZ and Australia. If you think it will you are deluded
Quote
So why haven't they then? Until that happens, they won't be anywhere near us so there's no point playing them yet if we are looking for a "competitive" game.'" they did, we played them in a competitive game where the Catalans players didnt have a mass outbreak of injuries and they gave us a competitive game.
Quote Playing a better team will help you to improve. I accept that. I don't think it will help France improve much however (which I have said), and it could do more damage off the field by losing interest in a game that is a foregone conclusion.'" 34-12 isnt a foregone conclusion. What we need is to get france interested. Give them something to play for so that they do play their best players. a Tri-nations tournament like the 6 nations in RU between Wales, France and England would benefit everyone, and it would be an actual international competition.
Quote However, you are the one that doesn't seem to be able to accept that playing a better team will improve you. France playing England (a better team) will improve France, but England playing the All-Stars (potentially a better team, and certainly a better team than France) won't improve England? You've said that.
It wont.
If you're going to say playing France will improve France because they're playing better opposition, you need to say the same about England playing the All-Stars.
But a mid-season international for France against us will help France improve? I don't get how it can be one way but not the other?'" It doesnt go one way and not the other. France will improve because they are playing international competition. Not because they are playing better teams but because they are playing international competition, together, as a national side. They wont suddenly start catching us up because they are playing Wales.
Quote It's not arrogance at all, it's common sense if you have a limited number of fixtures to play games! Why aren't we playing both? Is it arrogant that we didn't play Wales last year? They're at a different level of the game to us. That isn't arrogance, that's fact. Otherwise, why don't we play Italy, Scotland and Ireland whilst we're at it? Or better yet, Germany in fact? Because both teams would get very very little from the game.'" It is massively disrespectful to both France and Wales to pretend it is a waste of our time even bothering to play them. We should be playing both. We should be playing a tri-nations tournament between the three teams from now until the end of time. Adding other nations when they get their professional game going.
We get the same as everyone else gets, International Competition.
You are being hugely arrogant, you dismiss beating France and Wales as if it was nothing in itself and their games against us are nothing more than warm ups to playing 'real' internationals against Australia and NZ. Whilst they are tier 2 nations they deserve much better than you casting them out as second class.
Wales and France deserve to play us, as we deserve to play them. Not to improve them or us but because they are professional RL nations.
Quote But we're not talking about replacing a competitive game so it's irrelevant.
The last mid-season friendly we played against the Aussies was 64-10. Did we play against them again mid-season?
If France (or Wales or anyone else) qualify to play competitive games, then we might see a better game. But a friendly against them hasn't proven to be a good contest.'" We have 5 professional RL playing nations, 3 get to qualify automatically and every two years one of the other two are allowed to try and qualify for a competitive game against the other three, and you dont want me to say this is a bit arrogant and treating them with quite a bit of disrespect?
And yes it isnt a competitive game, for some reason we think we are better than to play France and Wales in a competitive game, then we wonder why they send out a second string to get smashed when we deign to give them a friendly.
Quote Does it get good crowds and TV ratings? Does it bring money in? Do we beat the them every now and again? Is there other value to the international game here?
A mid-season test against France gets little interest, poor crowds, next to no media coverage, and the result is ALWAYS a drubbing. There is little benefit to the international game, and little benefit to England. At the end of the day, if we are organising friendlies for the sake of helping England's preparations, we need something that benefits England.'" ALWAYS a drubbing, how many mid-season tests against France do you think we have played? It can barely class as always anything.
There is massive benefit to the international games, there are international games being staged being the major one.
Fact is, once you get passed your inherent viewpoint that Wales and France arent worthy in themselves, and you get passed the fact they arent warm ups for Australia and New Zealand. You will see how pointless this friendly game against a made-up side is, and how disrespectful it is to these other nations to say we need it.
Quote So France playing England is international competition, but France playing Wales isn't?
That hasn't explained one thing.
Why can't France play Wales instead of England?'" Wales can play France instead of England, it would also be international competition. I have absolutely no idea who told you otherwise,
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5506 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Jun 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| France would love to play England ,maybe not mid-season according to previous BG comments but the problem with france is that not only are they generally already an inferior group of players compared to the english,their (or BGs) main problem is actually getting their best french players available to play.Assuming the bulk of the probable french national team is made up of players from the Catalan Dragons the french coach is constantly being denied access to these players by the Dragons president M.Guasch.This is really annoying for BG who has the backing of M.Larrat who is the boss of the FFR13.It's like Wigan refusing to release the Tomkins boys or Saints refusing to release Roby or Graham for example.
In RU there used to be the annual England Possibles v Probables match - has this ever been considered in RL ?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 175 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2014 | Dec 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| i seriously cant believe people are against this idea
a combined side of Kiwis and aussies will be a far better challenge to england than france ever were
ill certainly support it and ill bet many other antips living in the uk will as well
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 8627 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2020 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| i'm sure if the RFL could find £5k a man to the winning team, it would inspire some of the more mercenary antipodeans to take it more seriously.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17226 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2019 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="saints35 bulls0"i'm sure if the RFL could find £5k a man to the winning team, it would inspire some of the more mercenary antipodeans to take it more seriously.'" Or we could invest that £85k in development rather than wasting it on a stupid and pointless venture.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6858 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2019 | Nov 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="headhunter"Or we could invest that £85k in development rather than wasting it on a stupid and pointless venture.'"
it could make a lot more than that with possible tv rights,sponsorship and gate reciepts.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SmokeyTA"The England team will get nothing out of it. It wont do anything. Its a team against a made-up team. While you may wish to pretend that this made up team will have massive pride in their jersey, they wont. It will be seen as a kick about. It wont, in anyway help in the players find that next level you need to find to compete with NZ and Australia. If you think it will you are deluded'"
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but there is just as many reasons (if not more IMO) that justify the opinion that it will improve the team, and players will have pride.
I will also add that to put your opinion across as fact is extremely arrogant.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"they did, we played them in a competitive game where the Catalans players didnt have a mass outbreak of injuries and they gave us a competitive game.'"
You said that they can get more players playing full time in the SL now. If they can, then they aren't. There aren't enough to fill a French test team. What this quote has to do with that point is beyond me.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"34-12 isnt a foregone conclusion.'"
But a mid-season test has never been 34-12. They've been *42-14, 56-8, 66-12, 60-6. They've consistently been walkovers.
*Played as GB, with a majority rested team.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"What we need is to get france interested. Give them something to play for so that they do play their best players. a Tri-nations tournament like the 6 nations in RU between Wales, France and England would benefit everyone, and it would be an actual international competition.'"
So you're saying that France aren't interested now? Isn't that something you were criticising an All-Stars team about?! If France aren't interested, then how can you be fighting for them to play in this fixture?!
I would love to see a European Tri-Nations with England, France and Wales. I've even mooted it in the past (alongside an All-Stars game). Unfortunately, it seems that we can only fit in one game mid-season, and we have to arrange a game that is best for us.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"It doesnt go one way and not the other. France will improve because they are playing international competition. Not because they are playing better teams but because they are playing international competition, together, as a national side. They wont suddenly start catching us up because they are playing Wales.
You've massively contradicted yourself here. France will improve because they play internationals, and you then go on to say that playing Wales (an international) won't see them catching us up? If France improve by playing internationals, then what's wrong with playing Wales, or any other international team?
I also think playing games is what improves that team, and the better the opposition (to a certain point) the better the improvement will be. I don't see how some kind of label (that being the opposition are an "international" team) would have any affect on their development?!
Quote ="SmokeyTA"It is massively disrespectful to both France and Wales to pretend it is a waste of our time even bothering to play them. We should be playing both. We should be playing a tri-nations tournament between the three teams from now until the end of time. Adding other nations when they get their professional game going. '"
Nobody has said it is a waste of our time. You're being OTT. It has been said that we would benefit more from playing a better team. That's not disrespectful, it's fact. France can't justify that they have been competitive in this fixture, and you're even implying earlier that they aren't interested. So how is it disrespectful?
In an ideal world it would be great to play both, and Scotland, and Ireland, and Italy, but the fact is we cannot fit these fixtures into the calendar. We can only fit one in. And we have to decide what's better for us.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"We get the same as everyone else gets, International Competition. '"
...that would get a poor crowd, no coverage, little interest, massive scoreline, etc.
Not the best way to sell the international game to the public.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"You are being hugely arrogant, you dismiss beating France and Wales as if it was nothing in itself and their games against us are nothing more than warm ups to playing 'real' internationals against Australia and NZ. Whilst they are tier 2 nations they deserve much better than you casting them out as second class.
Wales and France deserve to play us, as we deserve to play them. Not to improve them or us but because they are professional RL nations.'"
Again, this is not arrogant at all (and also ironic coming from the person who is trying to state his opinion as fact). It's not a case of one deserving to play the other. We have one game mid-season on the international calendar and we need a "test", which this game has not provided. France have not provided us with a test. That is a fact. We are looking for a test. If they are not providing us with a test, we will look elsewhere.
It might not be of your opinion that it matters that this game mid-season is competitive or not, but it is to Steve McNamara and the England coaching team, as well as former England coach Tony Smith, and I am more inclined to believe they know more about what they are talking about than you.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"We have 5 professional RL playing nations, 3 get to qualify automatically and every two years one of the other two are allowed to try and qualify for a competitive game against the other three, and you dont want me to say this is a bit arrogant and treating them with quite a bit of disrespect?
And yes it isnt a competitive game, for some reason we think we are better than to play France and Wales in a competitive game, then we wonder why they send out a second string to get smashed when we deign to give them a friendly.'"
We have 3 fully professional RL playing nations, and 2 with half a squad of fully pro players. Just because they have a professional club doesn't mean they have a professional test team.
That's not arrogant. That's fact. Is it arrogant that teams have to apply for the SL? Or is it that there are only so many places available due to money and the strength of the playing pool? We can't play everybody! Just like we can't have a 16 team Super League.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
ALWAYS a drubbing, how many mid-season tests against France do you think we have played? It can barely class as always anything. '"
Four. (Three if you include GB). And we've smashed them in every single one. So it's always been a drubbing, and always will be until they have a fully pro test team.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"There is massive benefit to the international games, there are international games being staged being the major one.
Fact is, once you get passed your inherent viewpoint that Wales and France arent worthy in themselves, and you get passed the fact they arent warm ups for Australia and New Zealand. You will see how pointless this friendly game against a made-up side is, and how disrespectful it is to these other nations to say we need it.'"
Stop all this pathetic worthiness rubbish, it's embarrassing. They aren't at our level. That's not arrogant. You said yourself they are tier two. Stop playing the offence card.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"Wales can play France instead of England, it would also be international competition. I have absolutely no idea who told you otherwise,'" '"
The fact that we can only fit one international in, and we have chosen not to play France, and your apparent tantrum at that fact, leads me to believe that there is some problem with France playing Wales instead of England.
We can only fit one fixture in at the moment. Is it disrespectful to Wales that you think France should play England?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="j.c"it could make a lot more than that with possible tv rights,sponsorship and gate reciepts.'"
Exactly.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Wellsy13"
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but there is just as many reasons (if not more IMO) that justify the opinion that it will improve the team, and players will have pride.
I will also add that to put your opinion across as fact is extremely arrogant.'"
Its not my opinion. It is the default position. It is up to you to prove it. You havent.
Quote
You said that they can get more players playing full time in the SL now. If they can, then they aren't. There aren't enough to fill a French test team. What this quote has to do with that point is beyond me.'" Nope, i said that the french test team was professional. It was.
Quote
But a mid-season test has never been 34-12. They've been *42-14, 56-8, 66-12, 60-6. They've consistently been walkovers.
*Played as GB, with a majority rested team.'" so the question isnt what team can we make up to play. Its why is this the case and what can we do to change it.
Quote So you're saying that France aren't interested now? Isn't that something you were criticising an All-Stars team about?! If France aren't interested, then how can you be fighting for them to play in this fixture?!'" no-one should be playing this game.
Quote
I would love to see a European Tri-Nations with England, France and Wales. I've even mooted it in the past (alongside an All-Stars game). Unfortunately, it seems that we can only fit in one game mid-season, and we have to arrange a game that is best for us.'" So lets play an actual international game.
Quote
You've massively contradicted yourself here. France will improve because they play internationals, and you then go on to say that playing Wales (an international) won't see them catching us up? If France improve by playing internationals, then what's wrong with playing Wales, or any other international team?'" why do you keep making up i dont want France and Wales to play each other?
Quote I also think playing games is what improves that team, and the better the opposition (to a certain point) the better the improvement will be. I don't see how some kind of label (that being the opposition are an "international" team) would have any affect on their development?!
'" Because international games are what we doing. Its what you think you are preparing for. Winning international games is why we have an international team. So lets play international games.
Quote
Nobody has said it is a waste of our time. You're being OTT. It has been said that we would benefit more from playing a better team. That's not disrespectful, it's fact. France can't justify that they have been competitive in this fixture, and you're even implying earlier that they aren't interested. So how is it disrespectful?'" The benefit is winning international games. The benefit is thats the point of it. If we beat france or wales then we win. We have done what we have prepared for. Games against these teams arent warm ups they are the main events.
Quote
In an ideal world it would be great to play both, and Scotland, and Ireland, and Italy, but the fact is we cannot fit these fixtures into the calendar. We can only fit one in. And we have to decide what's better for us.'" So it seems strange to take the one international game we have and swap it with a non-international because we have a limit of internationals.
Quote
...that would get a poor crowd, no coverage, little interest, massive scoreline, etc.
Not the best way to sell the international game to the public'" its a massively better way to sell the international game to the public than by not playing an international game, which is what you are proposing. Quote Again, this is not arrogant at all (and also ironic coming from the person who is trying to state his opinion as fact). It's not a case of one deserving to play the other. We have one game mid-season on the international calendar and we need a "test", which this game has not provided.'" Lets follow this through. What is this 'test' we are needing for? is this 'test' to prepare for international games? or is this 'test' like a 'test match' you know how France, Wales and England are 'test nations' and playing each other is a 'test match'
Quote France have not provided us with a test. That is a fact. We are looking for a test. If they are not providing us with a test, we will look elsewhere.'" You seem to be expressing your opinion as fact here. My my that is hypocritical of you
I Quote t might not be of your opinion that it matters that this game mid-season is competitive or not, but it is to Steve McNamara and the England coaching team, as well as former England coach Tony Smith, and I am more inclined to believe they know more about what they are talking about than you.'" Or somebody looking for a scapegoat. Australia havent lost an ANZAC test in 13 years, NZ barely put a squad out. Why is it only us in international rugby that need this?
Quote
We have 3 fully professional RL playing nations, and 2 with half a squad of fully pro players. Just because they have a professional club doesn't mean they have a professional test team.
That's not arrogant. That's fact. Is it arrogant that teams have to apply for the SL? Or is it that there are only so many places available due to money and the strength of the playing pool? We can't play everybody! Just like we can't have a 16 team Super League.
'" And you say you arent being disrespectful.
And you are right, we cant play everybody, its strange then that we are choosing to play
nobody.
Quote
Four. (Three if you include GB). And we've smashed them in every single one. So it's always been a drubbing, and always will be until they have a fully pro test team.
'" 4. Wow. 4 whole mid-season tests. And they havent caught up yet? oh well then lets not bother. If we have played four games at our convenience and they havent beaten us? well I can fully understand us giving up on them after a huge four games.
I mean we have definitely stretched the Australians in our last four games havent we?
Quote
Stop all this pathetic worthiness rubbish, it's embarrassing. They aren't at our level. That's not arrogant. You said yourself they are tier two. Stop playing the offence card.'" It really isnt sinking in is it? Beating France is an achievement, beating Wales is an achievement. They are international sides against whom we play international games. Beating them, and winning is the end point. It is the achievement. They arent our sparring partners, they arent the tune up fight. It is disrespectful to those nations to treat them as such. Which is what you are doing.
Quote
The fact that we can only fit one international in, and we have chosen not to play France, and your apparent tantrum at that fact, leads me to believe that there is some problem with France playing Wales instead of England.'" so you made it up then.
Quote
We can only fit one fixture in at the moment. Is it disrespectful to Wales that you think France should play England?'" What part of me saying that they should play a tri-nations tournament with Wales and France, we should play Wales and France,and my constantly mentioning of Wales and France led you to believe i wanted them to play France but not Wales?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 9721 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2020 | Apr 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="j.c"it could make a lot more than that with possible tv rights,sponsorship and gate reciepts.'"
Agreed it could be done but.........
How?
If no tv rights will there be any sponsors/advertising then?
If the game has sponsors/advertisers are they getting "cheap" or paying top dollar (viewing figures and socio-economic factors come into this)?
Just look at "international" attendances in this country recently, what would you charge?
The "my club", "my club", "my club","my club","my club", is so entrenched, as shown by many posters in these forums, that how could you convince people to go?
Will clubs allow their little "preciouses" to play in a non game (see under injurys England Moronball team) but their recovery is remarkable after the event!!!
Would love to see it happen.
Would love the TV figures to be the best in the country.
But................................................
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 10000 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Lets follow this through. What is this 'test' we are needing for? is this 'test' to prepare for international games? or is this 'test' like a 'test match' you know how France, Wales and England are 'test nations' and playing each other is a 'test match' '"
"Test" in the sense that our players are being tested, that they are actually having to put in a significant effort to win, and not cruise through comfortably and still put on a massive score.
Not "test" in that it is a test team. France are a test team, but to suggest that they actually test England in this fixture in a competitive sense takes some justifying...
This may not necessarily be the "test" that we are looking for, and I have said that previously. But it is the closest thing we can get, which is why it deserves a go.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"You seem to be expressing your opinion as fact here. My my that is hypocritical of you
'"
They haven't. It is a fact. Getting 9-11 tries past them in every game, with only 1-2 in reply is not a test.
How can you justify that England are being tested in a game that has proven to be a walk-over every time from start to finish?
Quote ="SmokeyTA"IOr somebody looking for a scapegoat. Australia havent lost an ANZAC test in 13 years, NZ barely put a squad out. Why is it only us in international rugby that need this?'"
It isn't just us that needs one. You've just said here, the Aussies have one. The Kiwis have one. The Kiwis are tested by the Aussies. The Aussies usually beat the Kiwis because (as usual in international rugby) it is always played to their way (at their home, usually with their officials) and it's an ambush. The one time it was played in NZ they lost.
We aren't the only one that need one. We're the only one of the big three that doesn't have one!
Quote ="SmokeyTA"And you say you arent being disrespectful.
And you are right, we cant play everybody, its strange then that we are choosing to play nobody. '"
Yes, I do say I aren't being disrespectful. It isn't disrespectful to comment on the quality of your opposition.
We haven't chosen to play nobody. We've chosen to play a team with much stronger players in. You're not even trying to offer an argument anymore.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"4. Wow. 4 whole mid-season tests. And they havent caught up yet? oh well then lets not bother. If we have played four games at our convenience and they havent beaten us? well I can fully understand us giving up on them after a huge four games. '"
If there were other benefits to this game (i.e. big crowds, interest, money, etc.) it wouldn't even be a second thought dropping it. But there isn't. This game has gotten less and less interest as the years have gone by. The French need more SL players to be competitive. They need to fill a team.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"I mean we have definitely stretched the Australians in our last four games havent we?'"
But they have generated interest, money, crowds, etc.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"It really isnt sinking in is it? Beating France is an achievement, beating Wales is an achievement. They are international sides against whom we play international games. Beating them, and winning is the end point. It is the achievement. They arent our sparring partners, they arent the tune up fight. It is disrespectful to those nations to treat them as such. Which is what you are doing.
so you made it up than.'"
When you play a friendly, they are your sparring partners. That's what friendlies tend to be for. If David Haye had a match against me, no matter how seriously I took it, it wouldn't be a test for him would it. It's not disrespecting me to say so, it's just a completely different level!
Quote ="SmokeyTA"What part of me saying that they should play a tri-nations tournament with Wales and France, we should play Wales and France,and my constantly mentioning of Wales and France led you to believe i wanted them to play France but not Wales?'"
You're still dodging the question.
We can't have a Tri-Nations.
So what's wrong with France playing Wales instead, and we play the All-Stars instead? At least Wales get a game in this situation. As you say, Wales need international games also. So why isn't this better for everyone?
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6858 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2019 | Nov 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Leaguefan"Agreed it could be done but.........
How?
If no tv rights will there be any sponsors/advertising then?
If the game has sponsors/advertisers are they getting "cheap" or paying top dollar (viewing figures and socio-economic factors come into this)?
Just look at "international" attendances in this country recently, what would you charge?
The "my club", "my club", "my club","my club","my club", is so entrenched, as shown by many posters in these forums, that how could you convince people to go?
Will clubs allow their little "preciouses" to play in a non game (see under injurys England Moronball team) but their recovery is remarkable after the event!!!
Would love to see it happen.
Would love the TV figures to be the best in the country.
But................................................'"
i dont know when this game would be played but i can't believe sky wouldn't want to make something big out of this.
they should look for a new sponsor,a big bank like santander-call it the santander challenge.
Around 7 thousand turned up at the lsv knowing it was going to be a rout .imo this game will be bigger than that game.i cant remember what the prices were for that game but i'd keep them roughly the same.
apparently the clubs have agreed to this game so all we can do is hope they are as good as there word and release there players if not then other players will get there chance.
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 6668 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| 1. Webb
2. Richards
3. King
4. Monaghan
5. Roberts
6. Chase
7. Finch
8. Perry
9. Leuluai
10. Lima
11. Lauititi
12. Puletua
13. Fitzgibbon
| | |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 13190 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2020 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| While a lot have picked Dobson and Mason from Rovers, I personally would have an in form Galea in the side, he offers a lot more than some back row/ loose that have been mentioned.
| | |
| |
All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.
Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.
RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.
Copyright 1999 - 2025 RLFANS.COM
You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.
Please Support RLFANS.COM
|
|
|