What do fans want?

Personally I want:

1. My club to be well run and long term sustainable
2. Decent grounds to watch games at
3. High quality strongly contested games
4. Different clubs winning trophies
5. Growing National profile
6. Strong Int game
7. Growing jnr participation numbers
8. Decent media covg
9. Strong leagues at all levels of the game

Generally we are doing ok and I think I'd give the RFL a B- on a report card. Still lots of improvements to be made but the game is probably in better health now than it has ever been going on my criteria above.

wakey were always going to be kicked out when the thornes park ground proposal died in the a^^e and cas sorted their ground out

the fact clubs like widnes outside SL are developing themselves off the field in a way they didnt before is because the RFLs system of franchising is working in a way P&R never did

bye bye boom bust, hello sustainable development

you get 3 years in SL to show you can cut the mustard, not just one year

great system

thats some of the biggest BS ive ever read on a RL forum

thanks for confirming my views on champ. fans attitude towards the game

thats just a classic response

yes the governing body of the game wants to see champ clubs doing more poorly so it can just focus on SL clubs

theyll go into administration, reform a new club in the champ. and sort themselves out from there

without the pressure of trying to fund a SL club which is beyond their current means theyll have time out of SL to get things right off the field

cas and widnes all get kicked out of SL and are around, wakey will be no different

the club needs a spell outside SL because its not getting anywhere now, its like a man trying to keep his head above water all the time

plus widnes are a far better club for the game and deserve wakeeys spot

well...slightly...Castleford were RELEGATED as bottom club....widnes as second bottom......whilst whomever gets the shove his time, their demise will have little to do with competativeness on the park.

...and you have the nerve to tell me I know nothing about the NRL

the criteria for clubs being kicked out of sl has changed - so what

clubs have been kicked out before and survived

the reason for being kicked out doesnt change the financial impact of not being in sl or a clubs ability to handle this

yes,we seem to be forgetting the original post

I think the majority of non SL clubs don't necessarily 'deserve' a SL place but at least derserve a 'chance' of SL membership and I believe that place should be awarded on merit ON the pitch.
Many of the fans who follow the Catalans come from out of the Perpignan area (just as the RU team) which is a fairly small population spread over a large area (france is a big country) - they are RL fans so another french team in SL say,TO would attract the RL fans around the large general area of Toulouse ie,again from the RL heartlands

Tell me what exactly Widnes have done to develop themselves off the pitch in ways they didn't before other than find a rich investor ?

Not forgetting Cas were also relegated second bottom as well

explain exactly what the RFL have done/ are doing to help the Championship clubs survive and prosper , and what they have done / are doing to make the Championships the ' worth winning in their own right ' competition they said they wanted ?

Because uo to now what they have done has failed miserably , and when they dont guarantee a SL spot in 2015 things will only get worse

Purely on the onfield performance of the first team in a semi-pro competition, irrespective of whether the club is geared up to take part in, never mind contribute meaningfully to, a professional competition?

I disagree. IMO - having some experience of both since 2004

– the gap between the semi-pro and pro competitions is too great for the on-field performance of the first team to be the main determinant in moving between the two

so what incentives are there for any C/C1 club to reach the 'dream' of SL ? if,indeed this is the aim of any lower league club ?
You're not telling me that Carl Halls' dream isn't to one day bring SL to the Keepmoat for example ?

The incentives are the incentives of playing in the professional top flight.

Do you mean the pathways to enter the top flight?

Build all parts of the club so that it's ready to move into professional RL, not just spend all your money on building a first team capable of winning the semi-pro competition (and then changing it entirely so you can avoid finishing bottom and dropping straight out after one year, under promotion and relegation).

(ps: I would point out though that this thread is about super league as a whole, not just licensing v P&R)

1. stronger finances
2. strong juniors

the ground was already in place so its those two

1. when maurice lindsay got 80 million odd pounds for sky didnt some of that go to champ clubs
2. the rfl got tv coverage of champ games helping them get exposure and sponsors
3. money from rfl subject to criteria

the funny thing is you actually believe the RFL wants to see champ clubs fail. if it werent a fan of a champ club making that point id thinking the person was just trolling but you actually believe it

i remember seeing castleford putting past 106 past rochdale and i knew then P&R was an abject failure

:qmmrj7cc

that's the bit I don't understand either !

Widnes's current juniors were already signed 2/3 years ago

So we are back to having an ' investor ' being the only difference , in fact their playing strength was stronger back then than now

stronger finances play an important part in professional RL clubs

if thats the only difference you ackowledge re widnes well its still a massive one

the RFL mustve failed there eh? you know with their plan to see champ clubs fail

So some money that Mo got 17 years ago ? , what did the SL clubs spend their money on 17 years ago ? , how much did the non SL clubs get ?

A TV deal that actually costs some clubs money in lost revenue

And that criteria is what ?

You dont understand , so stop pretending you do , I dont comment on the game in Australia , I dont because I dont know enough about it , just as you dont know enough about the game over here . or in NZ for that matter

to recieve money from the RFL is not much use is it ?

What absolute nonsense.

Do you think Wakefields position wouldnt be in jeopardy with P+R? of course it would.

and Every club in the championship has the same clear path as Widnes and Steve O'connor have.

And clearly if clubs need it, getting investment in, paid for by someone else, is no bad thing.

you asked what the rfls done for them and i answered

sorry it doesnt fit in with your conspiracy theories

dont let the facts get in the way of it though cause its funny you actually believe it

widnes got in steve oconner after they went into administration and had little chance of a SL license

youve got it all wrong

if champ clubs cant find an investor then they dont deserve to be in SL

SL isnt a charity for any club that wants a spot. clubs have to meet certain criteria before they gain entry

allowing lesser clubs into sl just dilutes the standard

if a champ club cant find a sugar daddy and / or new ground then they arnet fit for SL

its that simple

if you dont meet the criteria, tough luck

2 Super Leagues.

Top SL to be called European SL.

2nd SL to be called UK SL

Either promote Toulouse into the European SL, or ship them back to the LER until they have everything in place.

Make sure the UK SL gets another game on sky sports each week taking the total games of RL to 4 at least.

These two Leagues would have the top (however many) clubs playing in them with the biggest/best clubs in the ESL.

How you work out who are the biggest clubs that get to compete in the ESL is anybodies guess.

But to be in either SL, you will have to reach a minimum standard set.

Expansion clubs and heartland clubs within the UK can play in the Championship until they themselves reach the minimum standard to reach the UK SL.

Once it has been established over a couple of seasons and has settled down, you could then have PR between the two Super Leagues.