So a team filled 80/85 % of mediocre aussies made the play offs , well that tells us more about the standards of the other clubs than how well the Crusaders have done

Attendances have been encouraging , but you always keep hearing these rumours about free tickets , and with the financial issues now raising their ugly heads you have to wonder

Finances , see above , and as you say none of us really knows the truth

Juniors , well sorry but any development is down to the previous club at Bridgend and work now done by the club at Neath , unless of course there are players from North Wales in the Welsh squad or the Crusaders 1 st team ?

So to claim any sort of success is a little dubious given the reported problems wether they are true or not

Who do you think was paying the players ?

I suppose it was the RFL was it....got any links to proof of this assertion.....you know the sort of thing, evidence, sworn afidavits....looking forward to seeing them.
As for a team with 80/85% average aussies finishing mid table in SL and making the play-offs.......leave Hull Kingston Australians out of this

You see , this is the problem , the way you see it is that it is wrong for HKR to do this , why , they ars far as I see it thee just playing the hand dealt to them , but you dont see a problem with the Sport claiming that the Crusaders are a success for doing the same

As far as I can see I dont see HR fans claiming anything other than " we will do what is best for our club , we know it isn't perfect and it will improve , but our main concern is being competitive to get us to a self sustaining position , once that is done we will worry about helping to provide the players to beat the Aussies "

But one the other hand " Oh isn't it great a ' Welsh ' team doing so well "

The players were paid for ' development work ' , that is how they got their Visa's , as they wouldn't have got ' playing ' Visa's

The head office of the Welsh ' RL development ' was the same as Leighton Samuels business , so any money for RL development went through the Celtic Crusaders , and who was being paid to do that ' development ' ?

Who was paying for the ' development ' ? , the RFL

But the UKBA , not being stupid realised that in fact the people at Dekor were not being paid to do ' development ' but were in fact being paid to play RL

That is why the whole thing kicked off

So...in a nutshell, the RFL were paying money to a new franchise team in a non RL area to assist with the growth of RL in that region. This money was used to employ the people tasked with this development....who also happened to be players.

Only thing the RFL did wrong was not to openly admit they were doing this......it's not like any other club would turn around and ask for the same assistance.....oh, hang on a minute.......didn't David Hughes just ask for the same sort of assistance....shame he didn't ask for it to be retrospective...we'd be minted at Quins

the Crusaders players Visa's would have been refused

Surely it has got to be good for the game to keep Crusaders in SL.
If they have financial problems then yes I agree with you,we can't keep bailing teams out but if their finances are fine they should get as much support as possible.
If RL wants to survive we have to look at expanding the game as much as we can,but in saying this we have to grow the grassroots of the game in any location we wish to expand.
You only have to look at London to see the success we are having in the capital with grassroots rugby and if the Quins can get their house in order it will hopefully have an impact and be successful.

Yes but lets see some honesty , if you are not going to let a club into SL because of its location , say so , dont hide it behind other stuff because you are scared to tell the truth

Fair comment but I hope they pull through this.

As I have show, with simple maths.......HKA don't need to field imports to be self sustainable.....

Their chairman wants 10k fans as an average to be sustainable...they currently have 8,250....so 1,750 more fans per game or 22,750 in total. If you use the Ian Lenegan calculation from 2007, that the average income from a ticket is a tenner...then HKR need to either find another 227,500 per year in revenue.....or cut it off their operating costs.....

Now, I have no idea how much Big Tongan Willie is on......but you can see where this is going

Except Big Tongan Willie will sell another 2,000 shirts with his name on , and bring in those extra fans who will stay as fans after he has left , giving HKROVERS more money to spend on their junior development , something that I'm sure you will agree takes time , even if you are in the heartlands , you only get players at 12 years old , so at least 6/7 years before you see any tangible results , it's taken Quins how many years , without any competition ?

Anyway i'm up in 5 hours with another 12 hour day in front of me , nighty night

On this occassion I have to be honest and admit that was actually pretty good.





However, I would still (if it was up to me) kick you and Crusaders out on principle.

Do people actually take starbug seriously lol?

He's alright you can just tell hes a bit ..oooold.
Hearts in the right place and tbf he was right about most of this

Why shouldn't they they believe him, he knows more than you think

DID; once upon a time, in some directors box at Leigh

.....Thats not saying much

All you seem to be good for is sarcy comebacks, no actual knowledge though

If some people on this forum had a tenth of the knowledge about RL that Starbug has, there would be far better discussions. Instead, he gets dismissed instantly as a flatcapper by defensive Cru fans, for making observations that tend to be correct

Maybe he should use the knowledge constuctivly instead of taking cheap shots at a superleague team because the RFL bent his team over.

, but ultimatley still ' fans ' , they unfortunatley then tend to stop behaving like businessmen and start behaiving like fans

I was involved for a while , but i always managed to separate the business from the sport , but as I said I witnessed many others who could and still can not

How often do we hear " He is a successful businessman , he knows how to run a club " , well let me tell you , there is no business in the world that can prepare you for running a proffessional sports club , how many other businesses can be a ' success ' but lose a fortune ? , or make a profit , but be deemed a failure ?

Are Chelsea a successful sports club ?

Yes

Are Chelsea a successful sports business ?

Definatley not

All most of it is is simple observations , unblinkered by club loyalty and historical ' rose tinted ' memories

As big Barrie put it , it isn't rocket surgery

the proof as they say starbug, is in the pudding.

Another saying , you can lead a horse to water , but you cannot make it drink

If you deny it water for a week [iand then [/ilead it to water the likelihood is that you can make it drink.