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| Quote ="Orrell Lad"Here's a change for the final test, some aggression! Totally absent from the series so far, say for the exception of SOL's hit on Blair and a couple of big hits from Whare. Seriously needs some biff to kickstart the game on Saturday.
Can I suggest England 'walk up' to the Haka, would at least generate some atmosphere
'"
He's in the squad and probably won't be ever again. If there's one man who would spark this series into life it is Benny! A final hurrah in an England shirt, he'd add that aggression so missing from this series.
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| Quote ="BuckleyStreetWire"![](http://news.images.itv.com/image/file/402826/image_update_img.jpg)
He's in the squad and probably won't be ever again. If there's one man who would spark this series into life it is Benny! A final hurrah in an England shirt, he'd add that aggression so missing from this series.'"
I would start with him and Ferres.Get into their faces for minute one, the start to both tests so far has been laclustre to say the least.
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| I watched Saturday's game again and have changed my mind on what I'd change.
Bateman was nowhere near as bad as has been made out. His three drops were due to a slip, a high tackle (not penalised) and a ball strip (penalised). I'd still look to move him out of centre but would play him from the bench in the back row.
On the flip side George Williams struggled far more then I noticed on the day. He looked nervous and tired after a long season. It may be better for him to take him out of the firing line. As a Wigan fan I can't say put Matty Smith in because his forms not warrented it this year so Gale should get a shot.
I would also look to replace Whitehead who's been poor over the two games. I agree that Westwood would be a good, aggressive fit and it could possibly be his final appearance in an England shirt so he'll be fired up.
I'd go-
Hardaker
Burgess Watkins Cudjoe Hall
Widdop Gale
Graham Roby Hill
Westwood Farrell O'Loughlin
Subs
Burgess Cooper Ferres Bateman
We'll have a good shot with that team IMO. I'd be looking to ask Roby to do the 80 mins. I think he can cope with that and still make a big impact.
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| I worry that the coach won't make any changes, the problems that most people seem to be able to see in his tactics were apparent after the first test, yet he carried on in the second test with the same squad and tactics.
The players he picked did not fit the tactics he chose, so I have little confidence that even if he does see the light, that he will pick the right players and the right gameplan(s) for this upcoming test. The time has come for a fresh start for England, and hopefully a new coach is appointed over the winter.
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International Star | 578 | No Team Selected |
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| Saturday is make or break for McNamara. A 20 point win (however it's done) and he keeps the job for at least 12 months. A repeat of the last test and surely he's a gonner. Then what? Push the boat out to bring Sean Edwards back to what "his heart is in"?
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Player Coach | 6809 | No Team Selected |
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| The dire attacking performance of England requires whole changes in key positions. Steven McNamara must make important changes to the team, and turn to Leeds and a dash of Castleford to turn the tide away from an otherwise inevitable Kiwi win.
[iZachary Hardaker
Joseph Burgess, Kallum Watkins, Michael Shenton, Ryan Hall,
Daniel McGuire
Robert Burrow
Sean O'Loughlin,
Liam Farrell, Elliot Whitehead
James Graham, Joshua Hodgson, Christopher Hill[/i
Interchange: [iThomas Burgess, Michael Cooper, Carlos Ablett, James Roby[/i
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"The dire attacking performance of England requires whole changes in key positions. Steven McNamara must make important changes to the team, and turn to Leeds and a dash of Castleford to turn the tide away from an otherwise inevitable Kiwi win.
[iZachary Hardaker
Joseph Burgess, Kallum Watkins, Michael Shenton, Ryan Hall,
Daniel McGuire
Robert Burrow
Sean O'Loughlin,
Liam Farrell, Elliot Whitehead
James Graham, Joshua Hodgson, Christopher Hill[/i
Interchange: [iThomas Burgess, Michael Cooper, Carlos Ablett, James Roby[/i'"
McGuire,Ablett and Burrow are not even in the squad and likely on a beach somewhere. And even if Burrow was selected, he has very rarely played in the halves for the past 3/4 years.
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International Star | 6848 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Mr Churchill"Saturday is make or break for McNamara. A 20 point win (however it's done) and he keeps the job for at least 12 months. A repeat of the last test and surely he's a gonner. Then what? Push the boat out to bring Sean Edwards back to what "his heart is in"?'"
Can't really believe i'm saying this but i think Shaun Wane would make a terrific England coach.
Edwards and Wane, that would be a great combo imo.
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| Quote ="Mr Churchill"Saturday is make or break for McNamara. A 20 point win (however it's done) and he keeps the job for at least 12 months. A repeat of the last test and surely he's a gonner. Then what? Push the boat out to bring Sean Edwards back to what "his heart is in"?'"
An England win & McNamara keeps his job. Unless the RFL have the balls & resources to bring in someone like Edwards. I wouldn't necessarily mind Wane being given a go. At least you might see some attacking structure & aggression in defence. At international level I'm not sure how much is game tactics & how much is getting the team mentally ready for the match. I can't imagine Aussie coaches spend too much time on the former, they generally have enough talent & big match experience in the squad to do the basics right.
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Player Coach | 6809 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"McGuire,Ablett and Burrow are not even in the squad and likely on a beach somewhere. And even if Burrow was selected, he has very rarely played in the halves for the past 3/4 years.'"
Those players whom you think are on a beach somewhere -- be it Blackpool or Bondi -- should be called home and called up immediately. This is a crisis for England and its long term morale, because New Zealand are playing for the first time without both their star halves and play makers, Shaun Johnson and Kieran Foran, and also without their second choice replacement Thomas Leuluai.
The Leeds players I have identified are unlikely to have lost all their fitness already. I was thinking of Ablett as a bench replacement anyway, so he would only need to play 15-20 minute spells.
As for Robert Burrow, his playing style makes little difference whether he is hooker or scrum half. He is a live wire, and he could ignite the English attack in a way not seen in years.
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International Star | 42 | No Team Selected |
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| Who is Carlos Ablett?!!!!Didn't realise we were searching Mexico for our English. Also I'm pretty certain it's Juan Carlos anyway!!!
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| Quote ="tigertot"An England win & McNamara keeps his job. Unless the RFL have the balls & resources to bring in someone like Edwards. I wouldn't necessarily mind Wane being given a go. At least you might see some attacking structure & aggression in defence. At international level I'm not sure how much is game tactics & how much is getting the team mentally ready for the match. I can't imagine Aussie coaches spend too much time on the former, they generally have enough talent & big match experience in the squad to do the basics right.'"
Wane would be ideal for the way our game is right now. He would them up and probably get the best out of limited players we have.
Which is why he would be entirely the wrong appointment. There should be one person with a responsibility for the pathway taking players from 5 to England, someone to put in place the necessary structures and systems from top to bottom and get rid of the nonsense patchwork we currently of massively different levels of investment, some clubs having academies, some not, some having U23's some not, some with dual reg, some not. Thats where we need to be, with elite development and international achievement as a priority not an afterthought with a part-time coach trying to fire up our limited player pool for the occasional underdog victory.
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| Quote ="Bullmad86"Who is Carlos Ablett?!!!!Didn't realise we were searching Mexico for our English. Also I'm pretty certain it's Juan Carlos anyway!!!'"
I must have confused him with another player. ![Wink icon_wink.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_wink.gif)
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International Star | 420 | No Team Selected |
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| Can't think of a player who would improve us. Players win matches not coaches. Though agree somewhat with Brian Carney that S McNamara isn't the personality for international sport coaching/management.
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International Chairman | 9565 | No Team Selected |
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| McNamara has got himself into a bind before in short series, by not making changes after the first game. I'm not talking unnecessary wholesale changes, but one or two where players didn't fire. I understand the temptation to 'stick with a winning team' but in a Test series you have to expect the other side to adapt, especially after a loss. If you don't and lose the middle test, you're then looking at picking players who have yet to play and are by definition rustier than the incumbents. Which for a conservative coach would tend to push even more for sticking with the players already used.
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Player Coach | 4474 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"I must have confused him with another player.
'"
Surely Lucas Gale is deserving of the number 7 shirt?
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| Quote ="Towns88"Surely Lucas Gale is deserving of the number 7 shirt?'"
Is this the same player known in Germany and Hungary as Lukas Gale?
If so, I wouldn't think that he deserves the shirt ahead of the "Jack in the box" known to the Royal Family as Robert Burrow.
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Club Owner | 8627 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"McNamara has got himself into a bind before in short series, by not making changes after the first game. I'm not talking unnecessary wholesale changes, but one or two where players didn't fire. I understand the temptation to 'stick with a winning team' but in a Test series you have to expect the other side to adapt, especially after a loss. If you don't and lose the middle test, you're then looking at picking players who have yet to play and are by definition rustier than the incumbents. Which for a conservative coach would tend to push even more for sticking with the players already used.'"
Absolutely correct. Gale and Westwood haven't played since mid-September, Cudjoe not since end of Sept and Smith not since the Grand Final. Playing them now would be a massive gamble - and McNamara isn't a coach to take risks.
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| McNamara says "I thought George defended really well.....he played extremely well in that part of the game.....particularly on our goal-line defence"
I didn't realise we picked our HBs for their defence. He must have missed that pathetic attempt on our goal-line where, after tigging the NZ player who didn't stop, he then didn't chase back but sulk.
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| Quote ="NickyKiss"I watched Saturday's game again and have changed my mind on what I'd change.
Bateman was nowhere near as bad as has been made out. His three drops were due to a slip, a high tackle (not penalised) and a ball strip (penalised). I'd still look to move him out of centre but would play him from the bench in the back row.
On the flip side George Williams struggled far more then I noticed on the day. He looked nervous and tired after a long season. It may be better for him to take him out of the firing line. As a Wigan fan I can't say put Matty Smith in because his forms not warrented it this year so Gale should get a shot.
I would also look to replace Whitehead who's been poor over the two games. I agree that Westwood would be a good, aggressive fit and it could possibly be his final appearance in an England shirt so he'll be fired up.
I'd go-
Hardaker
Burgess Watkins Cudjoe Hall
Widdop Gale
Graham Roby Hill
Westwood Farrell O'Loughlin
Subs
Burgess Cooper Ferres Bateman
We'll have a good shot with that team IMO. I'd be looking to ask Roby to do the 80 mins. I think he can cope with that and still make a big impact.'"
I'd go with that too. Roby can certainly do 80 mins, that frees up others to spell for Westwood (as he hasn't played for weeks) if he needs it.
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| Haven't all the comments but as usual there seems to be a lot of Wigan players who should be dropped.
Move Burgess to the left wing, Williams likes to run that way and some of the short kicks Williams puts in to Burgess make it look like a telepathic understanding. Added to that u'd have a better understanding of players with Farrell, Bateman and Burgess all together.
The key thing is the forwards though, Ive said it time and again Roby is non existant behing a slow ptb, look at the difference between the 2 matches. Hodgson offers nowt so i'd play Roby for 80 and bring in another forward on the bench because that is where the game will be won.
BTW if Sam Tomkins had offered as little in attack as Zak Hardaker has for 2 games he'd get slaughtered.
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| Apart from 30 minutes from Williams none of the Wigan players have offered anything in attack in both games. If any other player had performed as badly as Williams in game 2 they would have been slaughtered. He was garbage, but people, me included, have been light on him due to his inexperience. Hardaker's defence has been excellent.
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| Squad named: McGilvary and Smith in for Cudjoe and Westwood.
Not sure what that means for the team.... smith in for Williams? McGilvary in at centre for Bateman???
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| Quote ="whiston_warrior"Haven't all the comments but as usual there seems to be a lot of Wigan players who should be dropped.
Move Burgess to the left wing, Williams likes to run that way and some of the short kicks Williams puts in to Burgess make it look like a telepathic understanding. Added to that u'd have a better understanding of players with Farrell, Bateman and Burgess all together.
The key thing is the forwards though, Ive said it time and again Roby is non existant behing a slow ptb, look at the difference between the 2 matches. Hodgson offers nowt so i'd play Roby for 80 and bring in another forward on the bench because that is where the game will be won.
BTW if Sam Tomkins had offered as little in attack as Zak Hardaker has for 2 games he'd get slaughtered.'"
Wigan.
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| Quote ="EHW"Squad named: McGilvary and Smith in for Cudjoe and Westwood.
Not sure what that means for the team.... smith in for Williams? McGilvary in at centre for Bateman???'"
Bateman must still be playing centre.
My guess is Smith for Williams in the only change.
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