How so?
The OP explained their opinion regarding the Guardians lack of RL inclusiveness and pointedly cited rugby Union in their case. I have simply pointed out how misguided it was to expect a paper like the guardian to publish anything about a sport that was of no interest to its readers. Other posters piled in with their usual its not fair/it's a conspiracy posts which I have answered.
A quick glance at the VT topic list would see that this topic, together with the bulls and Nigel thread and the bottom 2 predictor topic are the only three I am currently active in. I have asked a question regarding packers jail term, but other than this particular thread, I have not mentioned or compared Union.....and in this thread, I did not open that can of worms.

Rather than whine like a little bitch in the hope of getting moderators to step in because you disagree with the point of view of a poster, even though the AUP hasn't been broken, could I respectfully suggest you "do one" and join the sheep elsewhere.

Its the off season, what do you expect? What do you wish to discuss?

In a thread discussing union media bias against RL you are always going to get a Union troll like Gutters piping up.

NZ home of Union Gutters, the stronghold of the all blacks and the game in the southern hemisphere? Those crowds are hardly impressive, even less when they are falling year on year, couple with the state of the union in the 2nd tier in NZ and the financial problems the NZRU still is carrying from the last RUWC and the "shakey isles" seems a very apt name for the game there.

Just needs the NRL to get its act together and start supporting the NZRL and the game over there now to see a similiar decline we have seen for Union in Australia. Before you know it the Warriors under 20's will be drawing bigger audiences than S15.

The Warriors themselves would need to overtake ANZAC Netball before thinking about getting the added 100k+ they would need to get close to a poorly supported S15 franchise first.....but you carry on peddling your snake oil if you must, as it is only lies and old stories that you have in your nal!



As for the NZRU, they posted a profit for the last full year and are in no trouble financially as a result of the last RWC.

No comment on the AB's getting $4,000,000 for 1 game whilst the NRL scrape around to reward their winners with far less for an entire season?

Quote ="JB Down Under"In a thread discussing union media bias against RL you are always going to get a Union troll like Gutters piping up.'" Hmmm...you seem more preoccupied with Union than anyone else in this thread..... Quote ="JB Down Under"Me thinks being a Ru fan living in NZ you should concern yourself with matters closer to home: Deloitte Sports Review of the 14 semi-professional and amateur rugby unions competing in New Zealand’s premier provincial rugby competition, the ITM Cup. Through a financial review of each union’s annual financial accounts, our findings show that collectively revenues are falling and accumulated reserves are being eroded. This, combined with the well documented difficulties of several unions, highlights the increasing pressures placed on those charged with the operational and financial stewardship of the game. Financial Performance There has been a significant decline in revenues over the previous five financial years, falling by $16 million, or 19%, to $68 million in FY11. Approximately 50% of this decline occurred in the most recent financial year. Key revenue streams are sponsorship and grants, and match related revenues. Other revenues include transfer fees, event/franchise management, insurance proceeds and sundry revenue. The $16 million decline in revenue is primarily related to lower match related incomes, which has fallen from $21 million to $9 million over the five years, representing a drop of 58%. Income from grants and sponsorship is heavily reliant on contributions from the NZRU and grants from gaming operators. The five provincial unions with professional Super Rugby based teams generate in excess of 50% of total revenues although the extent of this has declined from 55% to 51% between FY07 to FY11. As a consequence of declining revenues, total expenditures have reduced across the major categories: team and match related costs, growing the game and administration expenses. The chart to the right highlights that the greatest reduction is with team and match costs, suggesting those in management positions are consciously reducing match and player costs with falling revenues. Collectively, the unions have not generated a consolidated operating profit in any of the last five years. Losses range between $0.6 million to almost $7 million, although the consolidated deficit dropped to its lowest level in FY11. In total, cumulative operating losses over this period amount to $16 million. www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-New ... w_2012.pdf'" Quote ="JB Down Under"Seems Rugby (sic) is on the nose across NZ The Crusaders continue to be one of the most popular teams in Super Rugby despite a season of mixed results and decreasing crowd numbers at home. The seven-time championship winning side have drawn an average crowd size of 14,600 to AMI Stadium this year, a decrease from 17,300 last season but still enough to have them second only to the Auckland-based Blues for New Zealand sides. Things aren't so rosy for the Hurricanes however with an average of 11,200 at Westpac Stadium.'" Quote ="JB Down Under"In a thread discussing union media bias against RL you are always going to get a Union troll like Gutters piping up. NZ home of Union Gutters, the stronghold of the all blacks and the game in the southern hemisphere? Those crowds are hardly impressive, even less when they are falling year on year, couple with the state of the union in the 2nd tier in NZ and the financial problems the NZRU still is carrying from the last RUWC and the "shakey isles" seems a very apt name for the game there. Just needs the NRL to get its act together and start supporting the NZRL and the game over there now to see a similiar decline we have seen for Union in Australia. Before you know it the Warriors under 20's will be drawing bigger audiences than S15.'" ....is there something you're not telling us?

Quote ="JB Down Under"In a thread discussing union media bias against RL you are always going to get a Union troll like Gutters piping up.'" Hmmm...you seem more preoccupied with Union than anyone else in this thread..... Quote ="JB Down Under"Me thinks being a Ru fan living in NZ you should concern yourself with matters closer to home: Deloitte Sports Review of the 14 semi-professional and amateur rugby unions competing in New Zealand’s premier provincial rugby competition, the ITM Cup. Through a financial review of each union’s annual financial accounts, our findings show that collectively revenues are falling and accumulated reserves are being eroded. This, combined with the well documented difficulties of several unions, highlights the increasing pressures placed on those charged with the operational and financial stewardship of the game. Financial Performance There has been a significant decline in revenues over the previous five financial years, falling by $16 million, or 19%, to $68 million in FY11. Approximately 50% of this decline occurred in the most recent financial year. Key revenue streams are sponsorship and grants, and match related revenues. Other revenues include transfer fees, event/franchise management, insurance proceeds and sundry revenue. The $16 million decline in revenue is primarily related to lower match related incomes, which has fallen from $21 million to $9 million over the five years, representing a drop of 58%. Income from grants and sponsorship is heavily reliant on contributions from the NZRU and grants from gaming operators. The five provincial unions with professional Super Rugby based teams generate in excess of 50% of total revenues although the extent of this has declined from 55% to 51% between FY07 to FY11. As a consequence of declining revenues, total expenditures have reduced across the major categories: team and match related costs, growing the game and administration expenses. The chart to the right highlights that the greatest reduction is with team and match costs, suggesting those in management positions are consciously reducing match and player costs with falling revenues. Collectively, the unions have not generated a consolidated operating profit in any of the last five years. Losses range between $0.6 million to almost $7 million, although the consolidated deficit dropped to its lowest level in FY11. In total, cumulative operating losses over this period amount to $16 million. www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-New ... w_2012.pdf'" Quote ="JB Down Under"Seems Rugby (sic) is on the nose across NZ The Crusaders continue to be one of the most popular teams in Super Rugby despite a season of mixed results and decreasing crowd numbers at home. The seven-time championship winning side have drawn an average crowd size of 14,600 to AMI Stadium this year, a decrease from 17,300 last season but still enough to have them second only to the Auckland-based Blues for New Zealand sides. Things aren't so rosy for the Hurricanes however with an average of 11,200 at Westpac Stadium.'" Quote ="JB Down Under"In a thread discussing union media bias against RL you are always going to get a Union troll like Gutters piping up. NZ home of Union Gutters, the stronghold of the all blacks and the game in the southern hemisphere? Those crowds are hardly impressive, even less when they are falling year on year, couple with the state of the union in the 2nd tier in NZ and the financial problems the NZRU still is carrying from the last RUWC and the "shakey isles" seems a very apt name for the game there. Just needs the NRL to get its act together and start supporting the NZRL and the game over there now to see a similiar decline we have seen for Union in Australia. Before you know it the Warriors under 20's will be drawing bigger audiences than S15.'" ....is there something you're not telling us?

A meager profit for the first time in 5 years (only due to selling the all black jersey to aig) The NRL revenue is double the nzru and aru put together lol. RL is coming to get you NZ The innovative format which brings together every NRL team already has attendance at 36,000 per day two months out from the landmark tournament and is on track to virtually sell out the 44,000 capacity Eden Park on both days. With two months to go before the tournament starts, ticket revenue has passed over $3million – the highest figure ever recorded for a rugby league event in New Zealand. www.bulldogs.com.au/news-display ... cord/88605

A meager profit for the first time in 5 years (only due to selling the all black jersey to aig) The NRL revenue is double the nzru and aru put together lol. RL is coming to get you NZ The innovative format which brings together every NRL team already has attendance at 36,000 per day two months out from the landmark tournament and is on track to virtually sell out the 44,000 capacity Eden Park on both days. With two months to go before the tournament starts, ticket revenue has passed over $3million – the highest figure ever recorded for a rugby league event in New Zealand. www.bulldogs.com.au/news-display ... cord/88605

RU the least watched footy code in Australia lol

Quote ="JB Down Under"A meager profit for the first time in 5 years (only due to selling the all black jersey to aig) The NRL revenue is double the nzru and aru put together lol. RL is coming to get you NZ The innovative format which brings together every NRL team already has attendance at 36,000 per day two months out from the landmark tournament and is on track to virtually sell out the 44,000 capacity Eden Park on both days. With two months to go before the tournament starts, ticket revenue has passed over $3million – the highest figure ever recorded for a rugby league event in New Zealand. www.bulldogs.com.au/news-display ... cord/88605'" Great stuff

Quote ="JB Down Under"A meager profit for the first time in 5 years (only due to selling the all black jersey to aig) The NRL revenue is double the nzru and aru put together lol. RL is coming to get you NZ The innovative format which brings together every NRL team already has attendance at 36,000 per day two months out from the landmark tournament and is on track to virtually sell out the 44,000 capacity Eden Park on both days. With two months to go before the tournament starts, ticket revenue has passed over $3million – the highest figure ever recorded for a rugby league event in New Zealand. www.bulldogs.com.au/news-display ... cord/88605'" Great stuff

Who gives a shiit

I think I am supposed to



It's a game the more insecure RL fans among us play to make themselves feel better about how small RL actually is when compared to the slower, but bigger and more popular code.

For example:
Point out that the Irish Rugby Football Union, who run a sport that is behind Gaelic Football, Hurling and soccer, generates a bigger turn over than the RFL and the stock response is $1,000,000,000 for a TV deal in Australia.
or

Point out that the Welsh RFU generates more than the RFL, as does the Scottish RFU too and the stock response is State of Origin gets 4,000,000 viewers.

One of the problems with this game is that most of the "proof" delivered to show how MASSIVE RL is in Australia and how the media Bias is keeping RL down in the UK is actually only opinion. AFL is bigger in Australia and is actually a NATIONAL sport as to the NRL which has 62/5% or 10 of it's 16 sides in one state (and that's counting ACT as a state

), whilst in the UK 12 of the 14 (86%) of the teams are along 1 motorway. That means that 22 of the 30 (73%) professional clubs in RL around the world, come from 2 core regions......but this fact is ignored when discussing the supposed IRB/RFU led media bias against League. The actual viewing figures of actual viewers who tune in in greater numbers to watch Union everywhere other than Australia FTA (the pay TV records in Australia belong to Union by the way).

Aviva feel the need to pay 4 million a year for naming rights of a competition that delivers comparable attendance and viewing figures as Super League, whilst BT pay double for the rights, The RLWC delivered cut price RL to the British public but the 160,000 increase in fans didn't deliver the financial clout expected, the recent All Blacks match v England attracted 1,000,000+ viewers on Pay TV........that is 4 times the audience for the SL grand final in 2013.....but these FACTS, if the self declared defenders of the RFL faith are to be believed are not important.....well, not as important as the Guardian Newspaper, whose readership are not interested in RL, omitting a game of RL from its 2013 sports round up!

Again best to get your facts correct, in terms of population the NRL has a greater national reach of clubs as afl has NO clubs outside of capital cities.

Good to see your embarrassed by rugby unions slow death in Australia and rl's dominance and are now switching to another code to take a pop at RL, classic trolling.

AFL has teams in more states than the NRL. It also has a crowd average that is over double that of the NRL and gets bigger TV viewing figures across the board.....that's why you roll out 3 midweek pantomime games as a defence





I could have sworn the British Lions toured Australia in 2013 and quite a few people paid top dollar to watch them? I'm also pretty confident that the average attendance for Aussie SL teams in 2013 was 17,494......which is more than 15,940 isn't it? Interesting that you've moved away from NZ, but not surprising given more people in NZ tuned in to watch the B&I Lions than bothered with the Warriors in 2013.
I could have also replied to your earlier posts about the unions in NZ with a breakdown of the 14 loss making NRL clubs, not to mention that 80%+ of the NRL and RL's income is from TV, a situation that is the #1 priority to change as quickly as possible because it isn't a sustainable business model.
I could also repeat my request for your thoughts on the All Blacks getting 4 million for 1 game...more month than the NRL champs get for an entire season



BTW, I used AFL purely to show that the NRL isn't as dominant as some misguided posters on here would like us all to believe......the state you live in his a couple of AFL sides does it not? Oh...and a S15 side as well. How many NRL teams are there in WA?

You know, I'm starting to think people on these boards see being passionate about rugby league as a crime. Being positive about it is punishable by death (by very long, convoluted posts that do nothing but reiterate the original point, in more words.)

The sport may boom or bust, but at the end of the day were all (well most) here because rl is the sport we love.

People should be applauded for hounding the media, tv, whoever for trying to make them listen to what's important, not sneered at. Without people emailing journalists telling them how wrong they are then status quo remains.

Oh, and I couldn't give a stuff what the Irish rugby union figures are

What's important?




Important to whom? The OP made it clear that in their opinion, the Guardian were wrong to not only exclude the RLWC semi-final but that they compounded their error by including the Union game that didn't feature England.

Opinions are like s, as in we all have one, but the opinions that matter most here is that of both the owners and editorial team at the Gruardian, together with their readers opinions too.

Nobody is knocking Rugby League. What is happening is that childish and idiotic enthusiasm is being reigned in. The BBC have taken RL off their sports landing page tabs, the Times, Telegraph, Indy, Guardian, Observer, Mail, mail on Sunday, express and other non-redtops will continue to give RL little in the way of coverage because it isn't of interest to their readers.

To childishly demand attention BECAUSE YOU LIKE SOMETHING is idiotic in the extreme. It is the responsibility of the RFL as well as the clubs, players and fans to spread the word. Get the attendances up. Get the viewing figures up. Get the NATIONAL sponsors on boards THEN and only then will the press and other media give the game some people on here demand as a god given right.
And before anyone pipes up with the "why does Union get it" argument, they get it because the y sell 80,000 tickets to an international in a heartbeat, get 1 million viewers on Pay TV and will shift the better part of 2.5 million tickets to their RWC in 2015 without the need for double headers. ALL of their competition will be available on FTA TV.......as in on ITV, not access TV and 2 years out, the venues, sponsors, KO times and pricing is already known! They know how to play the media game.

Lol S15, one team for the whole of nsw and their crowds are what?

Afl is doing better than NRL on a number of markets, but it has had a 16 year head start. This year is the first year the NRL has been on an equal footing, let's see what smith and the ArLC do with the new found freedom and wealth to run the game properly.

If RL was killing RU with both hands tied imagine the state of union in a few years now the NRL is cashed up and free to make decisions for the good of the game.

Let the good times roll!

Oh my sweet Jesus. Death by long winded post it is.

The entire world demands attention for what is important to them. 99% of the time you get ignored, it's not going to stop me talking about it to anyone who'll listen. It's not being childish, it's being passionate.

And I can link you to articles by all of those papers. And the economist, and Bloomberg. So what? They will all have the same mantra - write about what sells. Enough people write in saying you missed out rugby league, the more it gets considered in future.

BBC still have rl in there banner, on the national co.uk site. For the last time ...

Rugby union does nothing "better" than rugby league. It's the (slightly) more dominant code at the moment, but that had nothing to do with what ru did. Ru got the capital London, where all the news is made. And where the most people are. The same reason league won out in aus - because it had Sydney. Also, saying they can sell out an 80,000 seat stadium is nothing. I live in London, I've seen 80,000 in a shopping centre.

So by that conclusion the most apt thing to compare rugby league to is union in aus - how would that go? (Note this is a rhetoric question, I can't be bothered with manipulation of data at this time)

I have no idea why people are so obsessed with fta - we have the exact same package as football (round up show, internationals, some cup comps ) and it doesn't do them any harm.

On the field, we all agree that League is the better sport....I spent 2 hours debating this with the former coach of Ulster RFC last night and believe I actually got him to concede (very drunk towards the end)....but off the park, Union is ing light years ahead......LIGHT YEARS!

Rugby Union in the UK gets more money from its TV deal...twice as much, has a number of sponsors paying top dollar including Aviva paying £4,000,000 a year for the naming rights to the premiership. Heineken say they will have invested £100,000,000 in Union between 1995 and 2015.
Saracens, a nomadic club that relies on big event games to raise their pitiful averages gets £1,500,000 a year for sponsorship and naming rights to the ground, the RFU can shift 80,000 tickets in a heartbeat starting at £35.00 a pop. Rugby Union in the UK own touch rugby......something the NRL and Australians think is a big thing given the hard on they got when they did they same thing down under last year.

Internationally?
1954-2013 RLWC's = 2,929,743 fans in attendance over 14 competitions. The last RLWC in 2013 will deliver a $5,500,000 pay day for the RLIF.

The last 2 Rugby World Cups alone have delivered 3,740,517 fans in attendance and $200,000,000 to the IRB in HOSTING RIGHTS ALONE





458,483 attended 28 games over the RLWC 2013.
276,036 Watched 5 Australian Union friendlies over the same period.....233,193 watched the All Blacks in their 4 friendlies....509,229 attending friendlies where tickets cost slightly more than £7.50 each

And the reason is London - as I said. Don't underestimate this city! Just as the major reason for rl's media and commercial success in aus is down to its control of Sydney ... Difference being one is the financial hub of the world. Roles reversed would have rl as the media dominated sport over here - hence they're doing nothing "better" commercially - just taking advantage if the tools they have, just as the nrl in Sydney, just as English rl would role reversed.

And maybe not for the internationals, but I can still get £5 tickets for bath vs tigers for an 8,000 capacity stadium for supposedly one of the games of the year - hardly the health of light by that logic

Really?
the last 2 RWC's got 3,740,000 over 96 games...not one of them was in London......the IRB got $200,000,000 in hosting rights alone with $0 from London....Take London from the Aussie and All Black games this autumn just gone and add South Africa's 191,368 over 3 games and you still get more than the entire RLWC attendance.....are Dublin, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Paris to blame as well

Not just London as the people here (though that helps as a good start) but all the media surrounding it. Having x many clubs in the capital, naturally draws said media, which helps attendances both in the capital and the broader surroundings (as the influence London news has on the rest of the country.) which in turn steps up the advertising and sponsorship levels.

The same can be said for Sydney and rl.

As I said the difference is London is the financial hub of the world, so it's influence goes beyond the country. (Doesn't every major city want to be like London

) I know the work I do influences work done in Paris and Frankfurt. News, sport, work, and culture travel at similar rates - I imagine it's similar to aus and the pacific islands (where union is virtually unheard of - in very similar way arguably)

I'd say nz is going to be a bit of a battle ground rl vs ru in the next few years, it should be interesting.

South African rugby union is just the British Middle class culture shining through

Outside of the Warriors, RL in New Zealand isn't within touching distance of Union. It gets less fans and less viewers than Netball...the Auckland 9's will be a big fancy dress party (jafas always wanted the 7's from Wellington) and it will boost participation numbers in touch, but the reality is that more people got up at 2am to watch the Union friendlies than bothered with the RLWC final......this is a Union country. As starbug will tell you, RL has a bad reputation in NZ with gangs settling scores both on and off the pitch.....it will take generations to sort that out.

The NRL and RLIF would be better placed strengthening the islands. Tonga, Samoa and Fiji, together with PNG would be where I'd concentrate.........get these countries competitive and capable of beating Australia and New Zealand and THEN you'll get the same level of support that Union does.

Clearly, you've never been to NZ.

RU in NZ is the dominant religion.

RL in NZ is an afterthought which registers a mere 0.0000001 on the richter scale of interest.

Actually RU is in all sorts of trouble in NZ. Sadly I don't see anything so far from the NRL to suggest they will use their squillions and self determination to make a big push into NZ. At least not for a decade or so. The next expansion will be Perth and Brisbane, after that we may see another NZ club admitted but that will be a lot of years away.

In the ideal world the nzrl would have got a place at the arlc table when it took over the game in Australia and the $20mill+ the NRL gets from sky NZ (minus the Warriors $7mill grant) would be given to the nzrl to have a real crack at growing the game over there.

Quote ="William Eve" RL in NZ is an afterthought which registers a mere 0.0000001 on the richter scale of interest.'" 2012: 35,721 registered players 1,869 teams 159 clubs Considering the nzrl is run on an oily rag I'd say it's not doing badly, it's only a slightly fewer player number than NSWRL rugbyleague2013.nrl.com/PDF/NRL- ... e-2013.pdf

Quote ="William Eve" RL in NZ is an afterthought which registers a mere 0.0000001 on the richter scale of interest.'" 2012: 35,721 registered players 1,869 teams 159 clubs Considering the nzrl is run on an oily rag I'd say it's not doing badly, it's only a slightly fewer player number than NSWRL rugbyleague2013.nrl.com/PDF/NRL- ... e-2013.pdf

Somewhat akin to your ramblings on this forum then.