No we don't.

How is entering financial difficulties 'testing the ethics of the game'? Are Wakefield also testing the game's ethics with their supposed financial troubles?

Morning i dont post very often however i have been following this thread with interest.

Has anyone head or made a comment on here about a meeting of SL clubs 2 weeks ago where they voted to change the rules to allow clubs THAT WENT INTO ADMIN to be able to apply for a franchise.

Also interesting to hear that its 101% certain that WIDNES VIKINGS are in after the owner threatened leagal action aganist the RFL 2 weeks ago unless they confirmed that the VIKINGS would 101% be in SL in 2012.

With regards to my first comment this sadly makes sense as i know of 4 current SL clubs who are on the brink and would dearly love to get rid of debts a very good friend of my boss handles several leading sportman (Non RL/Union ) and recently and this was completly by chance had a meeting with HMC to discuss the problem of image rights and it so happened to be the same inspector who is handling the current RL cases (Inc Crusaders) and from what i heard back HMC are after blood!!!!!!

Lets hope for the good of the game its sorted out however i see some tough times head over the next season.

From what I hear from a usually well informed source, some of our biggest clubs are absolutely terrified over the image rights issue and it will cause huge problems when it finally bites.

I hear that in some cases certain clubs have been paying players up to 80% of their salaries as image rights (and in the case of overseas players 100%), thus avoiding the PAYE deductions and employer contributions.

HMRC is investigating as far back as 2005 and has said the maximum it will allow is 15% as image rights payments over that 5 year period.

I understand that at least one club (maybe more) is looking at a tax bill in excess of £1m.

Wow - you have such great sources there. You really are a guy who gets the inside track. Please, could you find out if my wife is having an affair? I have my suspicions but need it confirming and you seem like the guy who could get this information. Also, did Kris Radlinski really play for nothing towards the end of his Wigan career? Finally, does Richard Lewis actually drink blood?

Off you go.

with great respect littlerich,if you are so desperate to live in Stockport your missus deserves to have an affair with someone !

On the actual thread on this particular forum I spoke to an ex Crusader last weekend who is still owed a lot of dosh and is determined to get his money - how can any club,forced into admin be released from their previous responsabilities ? Justice has to be done here

Hey! Don't diss the Jewel in the Ring of Manchester



As for your point about relase from previous responsibilities - that's what Administration is all about. He'll get 12p in the pound.

So not linked to an issue specific to wakey but one affecting all SL clubs - that's quite a bit different than your original comment suggested.

As someone else said Crusaders financial problems have been known for many months hence why Steve Ferres was there helping them out (probably doing the wage run from RL HQ).

How was I imagining a conspiracy merely pointing out that if the issue was purely linked to Wakey's problems the SL clubs would not have voted to remove the Administration Clause. Your post above now seems to admit that it was the wider image rights issue in your opinion which led to the change.

If Crusaders can go into admin to avoid a winding up order, why couldn't wakey?

'See Stockport and die' will be my motto from now on - speaking of the 'jewel',do you recall Fred Goodwin who used to play for the mighty 'County' ?

re - admin, 12p in the £ is absolutely disgusting - best not tell him that for the moment following the aussies drubbings in both rugby games - he's already suicidal !

Dean ? Duggan ? Quinn ?

Personally I suspect that HMRC are going to use us as a test case before going for a much bigger target, possibly (although I know little and care less how they do things there) soccer.

and the rest...........

I'm sure an insolvency expert will be along to correct me in a minute, but there is some provision for the government to pay unpaid wages owed to employees, up to some fairly small maximum. Not sure that applies if the employee in question wasn't legally meant to be working in the UK...

exactly,that's the problem - it's a legal issue that could,and probably take years to contest by the ex employees

silly question probably and please excuse my ignorance but isn't there any kind of RFL 'slush-fund' for such eventualities ?

I will laugh my wotsit off if we have 4/5 SL clubs going belly up as a result of tax avoidance, even more so as the Turkeys have just been allowed to vote for Xmas.
The game will go on whatever happens, so the end aint nigh, its the insular way its being run that makes me cry.
Should make a great comedy at some point in the future.

The RFL do have ' history ' of changing their own rules to suit particular clubs , they altered the standards required to enter SL for Castleford in 2005

That would be the same season Catalans were added to the competition and given the 3 year relegation exemption. Perhaps the two issues were related, perhaps not, but over the years we have been left a situation where because of the RFL giving (or appearing to give) preferential treatment to certain clubs or changing their own rules at short notice no-one can trust a word they say.

Sad to say I find myself rather hoping Crusaders are in trouble and are unable to continue in SL because that would save my own club. I am not proud to admit it and have nothing in particular against Crusaders but in the absence of P&R and the situation where the RFL have deemed that one club is being relegated come what may I would rather that club that was someone other than Cas, and 'last in, first out' is as good a reason as any for Crusaders to go.
I suspect I am not alone in these sentiments and in a few short years the RFL have taken a sport with healthy rivalries but an over-arching feeling that we were a rugby league 'family' to a position where supporters are at each other's throats hoping for the demise of an opposing club to save their own skins. The RFL should hang their heads in shame at what they are doing to our game.

So, in a nutshell.

We are led to believe that, a few weeks ago the SL clubs agreed to amend the rules regarding going into administration, because of the image rights problem.

Are we to believe that, a fair few clubs are actually going to go down the same route as the Crusaders have gone?

So, in theory, we could see the likes of Leeds, St’s, Warrington, Hull K.R going into administration (apologies to fans of those clubs – just a theory right)

I just can’t see it to be honest.

I think a minority of clubs would be ok but for many if HMRC slap down a big tax demand and want their money right away then it could spell serious problems for them. If reports were correct then Wakefield's bill was about £200k and you would imagine that it would be substantially more at bigger clubs with 'star' players.

The simple fact with HMRC is that if you haven't got the money then they will force you into insolvency. How many SL clubs do you reckon could put their hands on large amounts of cash in a short timeframe if necessary ? Those with genuinely wealthy backers like Leeds, Wigan, Wire would be ok but some of the others would struggle.

Wasn't there a report a while ago that stated quite a few sports clubs ( including some big names) were actually trading illegally and that if anyone actually tried to put them out of business the whole edifice would come tumbling down and the social unrest it could cause was one of the key reasons why it wasn't done?

TBH i'm not tb's biggest fan but I understood his point all to well.

Define "trading illegally"?

Do you mean trading whilst insolvent?

Clubs with a sugar daddy - or who have a very strong balance sheet on the back of very fortuitous property transactions - are unlikely to be vulnerable. Those without a rich owner - or where the rich owner is not rich enough to invest much more - will be the vulnerable ones.

As I said earlier, I fear we are heading towards an 8-team (or so) SL comprising clubs with rich owners.

How boring would that be?

A Super League with the same teams in it every season and no fear of relegation? Boring?

Now which idiot would allow that to happen?












Oh. Hang on......................

why is everyone being so dramatic? a badly planned franchise failed and went into debt resulting into this slightly better badly planned franchise going into administration on the back of its debt. Until the RFL start insisting on proper long term business plans for new SL clubs this will keep happening.