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| Quote ="MOPSEY LIVES ON"you dont say
now il get ready for the same questions in 20 different ways
'"
i'll get ready for the zero real answers you can offer.
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| looks like a second club going to the wall this closed season... and one I have followed for over 40 years...
Keep the bench warm Blackpool wee will be there with you soon (sigh)
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| Quote ="Londo06"www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/11/01/06/RUGBYL_Wakefield.html
Does anyone actually know why the need £500,000 before the end of January?'"
i am sure wakey fans in the know can answer this question.
If there are outstanding loans made to the club by directors will these be repayed out of the £500K?
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| Quote ="Ceejames"i am sure wakey fans in the know can answer this question.
If there are outstanding loans made to the club by directors will these be repayed out of the £500K?'"
Irrelevant question cos there is no chance of them raising that figure and certainly not if it was to pay off Directors loans. Their the buffoons whove got the club in this mess and and most of the previous ones before
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| Quote ="Tricky2309":722hlf0rIrrelevant question cos there is no chance of them raising that figure and certainly not if it was to pay off Directors loans. =#FF0000:722hlf0r Their the buffoons whove got the club in this mess and and most of the previous ones before:722hlf0r'" ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"I dont know the directors or any previous ones , but would it not be the people of Wakefield [ not the fans who have put WTW in this position , what exactly would you have expected the directors to have done differently [ not forgetting the benifit of hindsight ?'"
The evidence is there for all to see mate. Here are a few examples :
1) The CVA the club entered into because they failed to do due diligence on John Pearman and started signing the likes of Goudling, McNamara etc based on some false claim he had a load of land worth millions as security. Jeez, we even got fined 5 grand for an illegal approach to Jason Robinson !!!
2) Abandoning the plans for our own stadium to go along with the pipe dream that was Thornes Park
3) The simple failure to be able to produce a business plan that remotely matches income with expenditure, even though they have had plenty of warnings with unpaid tax bills and the like.
4) Putting all our eggs in the newmarket basket and not having a finalised plan B that could be announced if and when the planning application got called in.
5) Relying on a payment of GBP 350k that was conditional on the planning application for newmarket not going to PI
Bottom line is there will be amateur clubs run more professionally then we are.
To clarify, my reference to previous ones, was with regard to the previous messes the current BOD (or at least the main people on it) have got us into.
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| Quote ="Tricky2309":1mg8npc4The evidence is there for all to see mate. Here are a few examples :
1) The CVA the club entered into because they failed to do due diligence on John Pearman and started signing the likes of Goudling, McNamara etc based on some false claim he had a load of land worth millions as security. Jeez, we even got fined 5 grand for an illegal approach to Jason Robinson !!!
2) Abandoning the plans for our own stadium to go along with the pipe dream that was Thornes Park
3) The simple failure to be able to produce a business plan that remotely matches income with expenditure, even though they have had plenty of warnings with unpaid tax bills and the like.
4) Putting all our eggs in the newmarket basket and not having a finalised plan B that could be announced if and when the planning application got called in.
5) Relying on a payment of GBP 350k that was conditional on the planning application for newmarket not going to PI
Bottom line is there will be amateur clubs run more professionally then we are.
To clarify, my reference to previous ones, was with regard to the previous messes the current BOD (or at least the main people on it) have got us into.'" , which would you have prefered ? , an honest answer please
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| Quote ="Starbug"As I said , hindsight , surely the biggest problem has been lack of finance , a ' business plan ' doesn't pay a bill if there isn't enough money , you got into SL and have stayed there when others havent , as supporters we have a choice , just as the directors do
A ' reasonably ' successful team , and financial problems , or no financial problems , and a poor team [ which would have resulted in relegation without a doubt , which would you have prefered ? , an honest answer please'"
We have never spent the full cap or anything near it, even when we have had our better players like Solomona, Ellis, Domic, Brough etc.. We have probably paid over the odds for a number of other overseas players who offered very little and that money could have been used on players from the lower leagues as we did successfully with Moore, Bibey, Grix and Wilkes.
Other than the Pearman fiasco our money problems have been in the seasons where we had a franchise, so relegation wasn't an issue to be concerned about.
My honest answer is I would prefer the club to be run by people who have a clue what their doing and not expect the likes of me to stump up a grand to keep the club in business cos they've ballsed up again.
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"We have never spent the full cap or anything near it, even when we have had our better players like Solomona, Ellis, Domic, Brough etc.. We have probably paid over the odds for a number of other overseas players who offered very little and that money could have been used on players from the lower leagues as we did successfully with Moore, Bibey, Grix and Wilkes.
Other than the Pearman fiasco our money problems have been in the seasons where we had a franchise, so relegation wasn't an issue to be concerned about.
My honest answer is =#FF0000I would prefer the club to be run by people who have a clue what their doing and not expect the likes of me to stump up a grand to keep the club in business cos they've ballsed up again.'"
And where would you find these people and what qualifications would you suggest they have ?
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| Quote ="Ceejames"i am sure wakey fans in the know can answer this question.
If there are outstanding loans made to the club by directors will these be repayed out of the £500K?'"
No absolutely not!
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"=#FF0000We have never spent the full cap or anything near it, even when we have had our better players like Solomona, Ellis, Domic, Brough etc.. We have probably paid over the odds for a number of other overseas players who offered very little and that money could have been used on players from the lower leagues as we did successfully with Moore, Bibey, Grix and Wilkes.
Other than the Pearman fiasco our money problems have been in the seasons where we had a franchise, so relegation wasn't an issue to be concerned about.
My honest answer is I would prefer the club to be run by people who have a clue what their doing and not expect the likes of me to stump up a grand to keep the club in business cos they've ballsed up again.'"
So who's fault is that ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"And where would you find these people and what qualifications would you suggest they have ?'"
We would not have to look far to find people better qualified than what we currently have. Answer me this question, what other heartlands SL club are constantly in the media for all the wrong reasons?
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| Quote ="The Clan"No absolutely not!'"
If this money isn't going towards repaying directors loans then what will it be used for ?.
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"The evidence is there for all to see mate. Here are a few examples :
1) The CVA the club entered into because they failed to do due diligence on John Pearman and started signing the likes of Goudling, McNamara etc based on some false claim he had a load of land worth millions as security. Jeez, we even got fined 5 grand for an illegal approach to Jason Robinson !!!
=#FF0000Cant Argue with that
2) Abandoning the plans for our own stadium to go along with the pipe dream that was Thornes Park
=#FF0000In hindsight may be, but at the time what club wouldn't have accepted the local council's word on delivering stadium
3) The simple failure to be able to produce a business plan that remotely matches income with expenditure, even though they have had plenty of warnings with unpaid tax bills and the like.
=#FF0000I'm not privy to the details of the day-to-day running of the club and therefore have little understanding of the pressures involved, other than that I can't argue with this point
4) Putting all our eggs in the newmarket basket and not having a finalised plan B that could be announced if and when the planning application got called in.
=#FF0000Not being able to announce the details of plan B is not down to it being unfinalised, it's purely a matter of a confidentiality agreement between parties which allows the other party to clear the way before the announcement
5) Relying on a payment of GBP 350k that was conditional on the planning application for newmarket not going to PI
=#FF0000something has happened which exacerbated the situation almost overnight, more to come on this for everyone
Bottom line is there will be amateur clubs run more professionally then we are.
To clarify, my reference to previous ones, was with regard to the previous messes the current BOD (or at least the main people on it) have got us into.'"
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| Quote ="Starbug"So who's fault is that ?'"
That's a subjective one. The club possibly for failing to take advantage of our successful seasons and kick on. The people of Wakey for their apathy towards the club?
The original point I was making was it wasn't like we had racked up the debt paying wages to the full cap and that when you have limited funds, you have to be prudent with how you use them.
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"=#FF0000We would not have to look far to find people better qualified than what we currently have. Answer me this question, =#FF0000what other heartlands SL club are constantly in the media for all the wrong reasons?'"
Like who ?
And what qualifications ?
Wrong reasons ? , all your wrong reasons come down to one thing ?
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"That's a subjective one. =#FF0000 The club possibly for failing to take advantage of our successful seasons and kick on. The people of Wakey for their apathy towards the club?
The original point I was making was it wasn't like we had racked up the debt paying wages to the full cap and that when you have limited funds, =#FF0000you have to be prudent with how you use them.'"
Take advantage , How ?
Surely the fact you are still IN sl and have been ever since you got IN would suggest you have been ' prudent ' with your limited funds , so who has been prudent with limited funds and managed to keep you IN SL ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"Like who ?
And what qualifications ?
Wrong reasons ? , all your wrong reasons come down to one thing ?'"
For a start, somebody who was successful in business and understood the basics of running a company. We could spend all night going round in circles about who. I am not too big on academic qualifications (as common sense tends to be something you don't sit an exam for) so other than for the financial aspects (where Accountancy qualifications would be required), I would expect the marketing director for example to have a proven track record in their field (ie evidence they can sell sponsorship packages etc...). I would also not expect to have three people seeming to have separate roles that could be combined and done by 1.
The wrong reasons are down to bad decisions made by the management on a reoccurring basis. Nobody is perfect and you can forgive the odd mistake, but to make mistakes over and over again is unforgiveable.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Take advantage , How ?
Surely the fact you are still IN sl and have been ever since you got IN would suggest you have been ' prudent ' with your limited funds , so who has been prudent with limited funds and managed to keep you IN SL ?'"
By marketing the club effectively when we had some element of success
We have clearly overspent in a number of those seasons and in two of those, we had a franchise so relegation was not an issue.
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| 4) Putting all our eggs in the newmarket basket and not having a finalised plan B that could be announced if and when the planning application got called in.
=#BF0000Not being able to announce the details of plan B is not down to it being unfinalised, it's purely a matter of a confidentiality agreement between parties which allows the other party to clear the way before the announcement
Clan,
My point is that this was a critical piece of information that to limit the damage of the PI needed to be able to be announced if and when the SoS decision was known. The requisite agreement to do so should have therefore been finalised and agreed with the other party
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| Quote ="Tricky2309":1zr27elvFor a start, =#FF0000:1zr27elvsomebody who was successful in business and understood the basics of running a company.:1zr27elv We could spend all night going round in circles about who. I am not too big on academic qualifications (as common sense tends to be something you don't sit an exam for) so other than for the financial aspects (where Accountancy qualifications would be required), I would expect the =#FF0000:1zr27elvmarketing director for example to have a proven track record in their field :1zr27elv(ie evidence they can sell sponsorship packages etc...). I would also not expect to have three people seeming to have separate roles that could be combined and done by 1.
The =#FF0000:1zr27elvwrong reasons are down to bad decisions made by the management on a reoccurring basis.:1zr27elv Nobody is perfect and you can forgive the odd mistake, but to make mistakes over and over again is unforgiveable.'"
Not being rich enough and daft enough to please you , I dont mean this in an insulting way , would you be happy for them to bancrupt themselves and their families for the sake of realising your dreams for your club ?
Would you do the same ?
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"By marketing the club effectively when we had some element of success
We have clearly overspent in a number of those seasons and in two of those, we had a franchise so relegation was not an issue.'"
That costs money , lots of it , money the club doesn't have , and like lots of marketing , there are no guaranteed results , how well could they have marketed the club in NL 1 ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"A couple of things , the people on your board have never run a successful biusiness , I take it ? , if thats the case how did they get the funds to be in control of a sports club like WTW ?
No business experience can prepare you to run a sports business like a SL club , a successful [ normal business makes a profit , a successful sports business can lose millions per year [ Chelsea but still be seen as successful
You suggest a ' marketing director ' , unless one with that marketing experience [ and that in itself is probably THE hardest job at any club volunteers his services , you would have to pay for that expertise , which then means less money to apend on what you the fan wants money spending on [ players
The wrong reasons tend to be made on a recurring basis because of one thing , lack of money
You do see where I am going with this dont you , you have managed to stay in SL , without massive amounts of money being poured into the club externally , I would suggest that your BOD has done a reasonably good job , every year you were one of the favourites for the drop , twice Cas have gone down, ditto Salford , also Huddersfield and Widnes
What you are actually saying is , you want somebody to tip THEIR money down the pit that is the WTW , money they have earned through their hard work and business acumen , your BOD are guilty of 3 things
Being fans of the club , just like you
Trying their best to make the WTW a success [ I would suggest they have done that
Not being rich enough and daft enough to please you , I dont mean this in an insulting way , would you be happy for them to bancrupt themselves and their families for the sake of realising your dreams for your club ?
Would you do the same ?'"
You do make some valid points above and I suppose as a Wakey fan it is easy to lose some perspective on these matters.
In no way am I saying that I expect them to pour money into the club to their detriment and that of their families. What I am saying is, live within your means. If that means be a non-SL club for a number of years than do it. Don't put the whole future of the club at risk for a few seasons of relative success at the top table.
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| Quote ="The Clan"No absolutely not!'"
Thanks.
i am not knit picking here. Are you saying there are no outstanding loans of directors to the club (which would be unusual in these circumstances) or that there are outstanding loans but Ted and the bod have stated that they will not expect them to be repayed.
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