It's a shame you and smokey didn't look at them first instead of bagging Lovegrove, they tell you that he's been a stand out for us last season, only a couple of props in SL have made more metres and tackles but not both, anyone who's above him in one list is not above him in the other, testament to the graft he puts in every game, averaging nearly 30 tackles and over 110 metres a game!!

Like i said you have to see him every week to appreciate him, he played all 27 rounds last season plus 2 play off games, he's not here for a pension, he's young and enthusiastic, he grafts like hell and it's unfair criticism when you don't watch him.

Looking at his stats I'm not surprised he misses a few he must be shattered!

thats nice, irrelevant but nice.
then surely you would have an example that disproves my statement, i.e a young english player who isnt getting games because of overseas players and not because there is another better young english player in their position.
you mean the bits where you make a statement i prove it wrong, you ignore it and make another statement. The good thing about this forum is that people actually can see you doing it


stop making straw man arguments and ill stop calling you on then,

you can always tell when you have lost the argument, you use loads of smilies

No prop has made as many missed tackles, few have given away as many penalties or made as many errors, 12 offloads in 29 games is a pretty paltry total, He is a plodder, a workhorse. Fact still remains, however highly you may rate Lovegrove, he was an unproven reserve player in Australia who never even looked like making first grade who was given an opportunity at Hull KR when there hasnt been young english players given a similar opportunity

Is there a list available without churning through the web of all the overseas (non UK born) players currently in SL and who they play for?
I repeat...this is a cracking thread

Why don't u lot shut up and leave hull kr alone as stated many times Wigan had 9 overseas players and what's been mentioned about that nothing your either anti kr or dull fc fans being bloody petty your wasting your breath rovers fans we will never win

and i have criticized Wigan for doing so

I bet that told them didn't it Smokey?



I'm sure that even now they are making wholesale changes to their playing staff.

Ah, a bit like the most important thing for an overseas players is quality, I mean age...no numbers! Yes that's it numbers. The most important statistic for a prop is missed tackles, I get you.



Hey Smokey, maybe this is the reason why Lovegrove got a gig?



Seems like fair comment to me. In fact it seems that you are suggesting that from the clubs point of view it is entirely reasonable to make this kind of signing and in fact in this case you are clearly arguing that there are not enough English players out there, but I guess you can change your mind if you want eh? Again?

Who would make it in the clubs benefit to bring in huge numbers of youngsters Smokey? Hull KR? The RFL perhaps, you know, the same people that make up the rules for overseas trained and quota players.

I'll let you answer your own question Smokey...



Seems to me your saying that Donald, Lueluai and Delany aren't up to much. You might even say they are keeping young English players out of the team.

Hey Smokey, you dropped these!

KR get the most stick in part because they've got a lot of very average Aussies in their side. But every team has far too many overseas players. And the quality is poor. We as fans should stop trying to defend the signing of average Aussies, whoever they may play for.

people keep calling them avg yet this avg team has made the playoffs the last two years and turned over all the so called "big" teams. Can't wait till we get some "decent" players!

Or we could stop pretending that any club is playing English players for the aim of some greater good.

It's a disgrace , HKR should be putting the development of juniors to the top of their priority , they should be happy languishing in the bottom 2 of SL with a full team of =#FF0000young Englishmen , getting battered every week would bring those players on in leaps and bounds , =#FF0000those players would then be better prepared to take on the Aussies and Kiwi's in a couple of years



It's all HKR's fault

He misses tackles because he works so hard and run himself into the ground, he also makes a few tackles, 8th in SL this season, his game is not offloading, it is making hard yards often taking 3 and 4 players to stop his momentum, again errors and penalties come with tiredness, certainly not the plodder you think.

The fact is he was an unknown 19/20 year old who showed promise and Morgan took the gamble when we were desperate for decent players to stay in SL in our first season and as you openly admitted we don't have that many english players coming through. He has proved since then to be a very good signing like it or not. Better value than most and a player who helped us do the double over the 3 times champions this season.

SmokeyTA wrote:they are doing it because it is easier, and a overseas players do provide better value.

They provide better value because we simply dont have that many english players coming through, so a 2nd/3rd tier aussie stuggling to make any money out in Aus like Charlie Leeano can come over here and get a decent full time wage. Sadly Leeano as probably a 4th tier australian is as good as most british players. So yes, they get better value and it is easier, why wouldnt they.

I cant honestly believe you still dont understand Bill. Considering its gone so far over your head you should just bow out with a little dignity.


wow, that is pretty selective posting that Bill. Ignoring where you were proved wrong and simply picking another part from random is poor even for you. But i will humour you. Its funny to see you running in these circles desperately trying to find hook to hang your hat on.

There arent enough young players, BECAUSE clubs arent bringing them through, they arent investing in them, developing them, introducing them and giving them a shot. Rather than invest in a 19 year old British stand off, like Greg McNally for instance, we see clubs look to 24 year old NRL reserve grader. Then wonder why there arent the players over here there is in Aus. Its simple, when a good 19 year old is in Aus, he will be scouted, trained and developed, invested in and introduced to first team rugby, The aussies will make the best out of him. Over here we simply take the best from out amateur game, stick them in an academy, if they immediately stand out they might get a game, if not they will be left to rot in the reserves because at 19 they arent as good as a 24 year old Australian reserve grader.

If Hull KR cant be run as a sustainable operation, contributing to league and player-pool simply because it is the right way to run an RL club then they dont deserve a place in SL. If your defence of your club is that the RFL made rules, couldnt legally enforce them because of employment and equality legislation, clubs sought dispensation and you are simply using that dispensation to the maximum degree, then your defence of your club is pretty poor.

like who? its a very simple question.

A decent rule of thumb when comparing props is that the number of tackles made tends to be a good reletive representation of number of minutes played.
Therefor, given lovegrove has made approx 2 x the number of tackles Luiluei has (and not far off x 2 carries), he's probably played around 2 x as many minutes. Therefore, if Kylie played the same minutes, you'd expect him to miss at least 70 tackles without taking fatigue into consideration. So 91 from Lovegrove doesn't seem too bad. Especially considering that I rate Kylie very highly.
An average carry of over 7.42 metres is impressive, especially considering his apparent high work rate.

and why cant he take those same gambles with British players? why couldnt we see Hull KR take a gamble on a young british player this season instead of taking a gamble on an NRL reserve grader? Why arent Hull Kingston Australia fans questioning releasing a 23 year old british stand off with 33 first grade appearances and replacing him with a 24 year old Australian stand off with 43 first grade appearances?

so just on a statistical point, considering Lovegrove has made almost 3 times the missed tackles (4 away) should he have made 3 times the tackles rather than two?

and this is a comparison against a player who i dont believe is particularly good in Lueluai

we can also look at the other players in the top ten tacklers,

Dallas Johnson, 1106 tackles, 33 missed
Malcolm Alker 964, 30 missed
Heath Lestrange 944, 77 missed
Luke swain, 910, 48 missed
Danny Houghton 843, 29 missed
Lincoln Withers 834, 51 missed
Craig Fitzgibbon 829, 26 missed
RHYS LOVEGROVE 787, 91 misseed
Sean O'loughlin 783, 21 missed
Ryan Hudson, 773, 42 missed

No-one has missed close to that number of tackles, most are closer to a third of the missed tackles than a even a half.

Heath L'estrange has the 3rd most missed tackles in the league at 77, fully 14 fewer than lovegrove which is 2/3rds the total O'Loughlin missed all season despite making almost the same amount of tackles.

Simple really, we have spent the last 3 years watching I'Anson struggle to make an impression, and we back our coaches judgement that he just isn't good enough. You can't hang onto young, British players out of sentimentality. In the end it comes down to a judgement on quality over nationality. There is a list of British players released by Rovers over the last 3 years. Apart from Danny Ward & Andy Ellis at Quins, I'm struggling to name any that have gone on to make it at SL level with other clubs. Most are making up the numbers in the Championship.

So why not go for another young british player than a NRL player who has yet to prove he is better than Chaz I'anson who you dont think is good enough.

You can back your coaches judgement but it clearly isnt infallible, including on over-seas players.

This is the mindset i am criticizing, its ok to sign blake green, an unproven, NRL reserve grader because he is australian, but not if he sticks with I'anson who is at pretty much exactly the same stage of his development, oh no, he is british

Because as you've quoted before the quality in depth is just not in the English game and aussie reserve graders are probably better than what is available here, I'd love us to find a Sam Tomkins or Myler or Eastmond but until then I want us to be as competitive as possible, who's to say Green will not be as good as Dobson when he's settled in? The older overseas players will be ooc and we'll be blooding our youngsters in the next couple of seasons, don't worry about it, I'm not. What difference does it make to you? We are within the rfl rules and thats all that matters and when the time comes those youngsters will come through.
As Sir Stan wrote I'Anson was not upto SL, it's a shame because he tried hard but was not quite there, I wish him all the best.