Defender makes poor read , attacking player scores shock!

In all my years of watching RL I'm sure this has happened before even to the best of players , and it will happen again.

Remind me, how many points did wire score in total? Someone must have been doing some defending at some point then?

Remind me how many hit ups the great Mose made v Leeds last night? I bet he's on far more money per carry than Clubb is.

Err... What?

You're saying that Ben Flower snapped because they were starting to lose the forward battle after two minutes (two minutes in which the other side never had possession)?

I'm afraid many of Sadend and his cronies blame Wane, even though it's obvious to any sane man that, Flower got a whack in the mush, and responded understandably with a whack in the mush to Hohia. What no one can expain, and that includes Ben Flower, is the second punch. No way is Wane to blame for the first or second punches, but his comments in the build up and the ridiculous documentary did him no favours.

Defend Wane all you want, but he doesn't help himself. Surely even you must be a little concerned that he said he expects more aggression from Flower! Is he expecting him to commence punching the children next??

No, he's expecting one of his prop to do his job - Run hard and hit hard. He's worried that with all the focus on him and his behaviour, he'll play soft, which is the worst thing a prop can do. Don't talk soft. Every coach from the kiddies up to the pros tells their big lads to be aggressive. I know a lot of people don't like Wigan, that's up to them, but it's absolute madness and unbelievable bias when someone hears a coach say to his prop "be aggressive" and think that it's permission to knock people out every game, which of course, Ben Flower did every time he stepped on the pitch, and not that one isolated incident..

Look at the way saints are now playing in their forwards under Cunningham. Far more aggressive. What do you think KC is asking his team to be? More gentlemanly?

You're both missing the point. He said he expects MORE aggression from somebody that's just served a 6 month ban for punching an unconscious player half his size...

When you find a dictionary definition that shows aggression = punching someone then come back.

For anyone blaming Wane for what Flower did, I think you seem to be not quite understanding that adults are responsible for their own decisions! Wane never told him to punch another player, and he never made him do it.

Wane may have some responsibility in getting his players over-hyped, but it's up to Flower to use that responsibly. He didn't. Hence he got a ban.

As for Wane saying he wants more aggression, aggression doesn't mean punching. Stop being precious.

I don't think for a minute Wane meant he wanted him to go out and throw more punches, but it doesn't really matter what he meant - the fact is, his player is returning from a long ban for violence on the grandest stage of our game, his 'more aggressive' comment to the media is ill-informed and doesn't create a good impression, particularly to the casual viewer who will have just seen a replay of the incident and then hears the coach saying he wants to see 'more aggression' - it's not a good look for the game.

I'd say he needs to engage brain and think about the impression he's giving of our game before commenting in public - having said that, he absolutely comes across as the type of bloke that would like our game to have the reputation of being played by 'meat head thugs who you should be scared of' - he certainly wants his team to have that reputation.

I've not actually heard Wane's comments. But did he actually mean "I want him to come back and be more aggressive than he was before." Or did he mean; "before his ban he was an aggressive player and I want more of the same."

The words "more aggression" in isolation can mean either.

It was something along the lines of 'I don't want him coming back being soft, I want him to run hard, tackle hard and be even more aggressive and if he isn't, he'll be at Workington'...

It's was an attempt to try and say he doesn't want him to go soft, or have demons in his head because of what he did - it's just comes across terrible and does nothing for the reputation of Wane, Wigan or Rugby League - it completely backs up the 'thugby league' ethos, whether that's what he intended or not...

Anyone would think Ben had just come out of jail for attempted murder, ffs it's was a couple of punches you see worse on a night out, rugby is a tough, physical game where you need aggression or you will get injured if you start going into or tackling not aggressive and 100% committed. Let's bloody move on with the whole saga I've had enough of it now.

P.s. What a stirring git eddy Hemings is.

To be fair, if you saw what Flower did on a night out, there probably would be a jail sentence handed down!

You could say that about any incident to be fair.

Recent rugby league has been littered with acts every bit as nasty as the one from last years Grand final. In fact our game has always had its fair share of nasty incidents.

What Flower did was pretty wrong, but apart from having a sore head for a few days, Hohaia was not seriously hurt.

We could probably all think of plenty that were nasty, calculated and left the victim in a much worse state. Still it was the GF and did draw unwanted attention to the game. However the fall out and subsequent dross spat out across traditional and social media has been an absolute joke.

Really? I'm struggling to think of recent RL incidents as bad as that. I'd say the last one to qualify in the same bracket was Chase on Ropati, after that it was probably Newton on Long.

A sore head? Hohaia was not seriously hurt due to luck. It was a terrible act that deserved a long punishment.

Almost every word of that is patently and blatantly untrue. As Him has suggested, there are very few incidents that you can compare to Flower's which is why it received such media attention and such a lengthy punishment. I'm glad that the authorities saw the incident differently to you, because otherwise that moment could have caused the game permanent damage.

Westwood's sly, blindside attack on Green the year before was worse.

I've not seen anyone bagging Flower - most are happy he's done his time and is moving on.

It's Wane's choice of words to the media that are silly!

Where in my post do i make ANY reference to the "authorities"?

I quite clearly stated MEDIA

Just so you never missed it

[size=200MEDIA[/size

No complaints from me regarding ban.

IMO opinion both incidents which caused these injuries were as bad. In fact the latter was much worse IMO. Premeditated and calculated

You stated that what Flower did was no worse than a lot of other things you see - I disagree, I think it's much worse than most things I've seen, and the authorities agree with me. Sorry you went to all the trouble of putting in big letters and pictures to emphasise a point I didn't miss. If you really think Ben Westwood's swinging arm was as bad as a punch to the head of a practically unconscious guy lying defenceless on his back then there is clearly no point talking to you because you're delusional.

All Wane has done is to try to make sure that Flower retains his aggression.

EVERY player that plays the sport relies on Aggression. Obviously that is controlled aggression, but aggression non the less.

Without aggression a prop forward would be rendered totally useless and may as well quit the game.

Ben Flower has shown nothing but remorse for what happened and i can imagine he is petrified of it ever happening again.

Remember what happened to both Eubank and Benn?

Neither were ever the same after their respective incidents. A symptom of them losing aggression from fear of the consequence.

All Wane is trying to do is stop Flower from being scared to get stuck in.

Green was lying on his belly with two other Wire defenders lying on top of him. He was punched very hard and clean by Westwood in a [uPREMEDITATED[/u attack.

Now read the following statements and tell me if i am incorrect in any way

Hohaia was totally unable to defend himself for the second punch. He could not see it coming and he could not raise a hand to stop the punch by his attacker

Green was totally unable to defend himself for the first punch. He could not see it coming and he could not raise a hand to stop the punch by his attacker

And that's fair enough - I don't disagree with Wane on that - I want all props in RL to be tough and aggressive, however that's not my point.

My point is Wane shouldn't be saying he wants his player to be 'more aggressive' in the media in a direct response to an interview about him returning from a 6 month ban for pure thuggery. Regardless of the motive behind the comment, it sets at terrible scene.

He can say what he likes to Flower in the background - and if Flower is stupid enough to go out and coward shot someone, then that's his own fault. But Wane has a duty to the game and I feel his team talk on the documentary followed by the Flower incident should be enough for him to realise he needs to button it publicly with the macho bravado BS as it makes our game look thuggish.... It's not about his motive, it's about the impression it paints to the casual viewers. Think of a casual viewer watching Sky Sports news and seeing the video of Flower and the story he's returning from a 6 month ban for his actions and then seeing his coach saying he wants him to be 'more aggressive' - is that the image we want to portray? Is that going to encourage parents to introduce their kids to this 'family game'?

I'm all for the biff, it's part of the game in my view - but there's a line, Flower crossed it, was punished accordingly, but as a game, we need to be showing that we want none of that, Wane and his comments are too near to the knuckle.

I understand what you are saying, however i would argue that these particular circumstances are different.

IF flower was a notorious thug, that spent the last 6 months swaggering around and showing no remorse and had a string of convictions for violent acts then Wane would be totally wrong for trying to up his aggression levels.

From the outside looking in, Flower has spent the last 6 months timmering like a mouse. Worried for his family and worried that one split second act of utter stupidity could have ruined his career and potentially seen him doing time in the clanger.

Encouragement to be aggressive is the polar opposite to being encouraged to be violent.

Every single coach in the entire world of Rugby league asks for 'aggression' and that is all that Wane is doing here. Nothing more nothing less.

In my opinion the fact that Wanes recent statement has been jumped on has nothing do do with anything other than the outraged majority having a whine.

If people thought about it a little more pragmatically, then they would see a coach telling his player he needs to perform as a prop forward should do. Otherwise he will not be in the squad

Nothing more

Nothing less