I am going to totally agree with Smokey...





I think this post is spot on!

Of course, I do have something to add which I know he will disagree with me on, despite his argument backing this theory!

This apocryphal tale that Sky demand that the RFL have clubs like Quins and Crusaders in the SL... they don't! What they want is a good quality product, played in good stadiums, to good crowds. They prefer Wakefield v Castleford (well, they like Wigan v St Helens et al best of all) but they could care less about Quins v Crusaders, or should I say this is not about geography for them, if this game was pulling in a 7 to 10k crowd and was of generally good quality they would love it... but now, they don't really care! Super League is a good product that supports there current premium product of football, same for RU BTW.

of course I disagree, its complete nonsense.

What Sky want, is good quality clubs, good quality games, in good stadiums, with lots of people watching on TV. They want a game which represents what their advertisers want their products to represent.

And very few companies want their products associated with two small northern towns like Wakefield and Castleford that most people in this country couldnt point to on a map. Even fewer companies want to associate their products with two small northern towns because their games get three or four thousand people more to attend than some other games.

Quote ="Speccy":1zv1qhge'interested' and 'rumoured' go into the same box as 'alleged'. Clearly,ESPN will be interested and rumoured to be interested in RL,but that is far from knowing that they would come anywhere close to actually bidding,never mind out bidding Sky for the rights.Incidentally,if they were to do so,wait for the complaints from 'supporters',when they find out that Warrington v Hull is scheduled for 6.00pm on a thurs evening.Sky actively schedule against ESPN,meaning that ESPN have to counter by scheduling at inconvenient times,to 'beat' Sky. One area where the RFL may be able to get an improvement in terms,is for the thurs evening Championship game,which now regularly gets around 60,000 viewers on Sky Sports 4.'" :1zv1qhge www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcastin ... ights.html He added already show rugby union and it's logical for them to take a look at rugby league. There is a lot of interest and I think it's quite a buoyant market place for rugby league. I'm really encouraged." Seems like they would be interested, but i dont know how much this is just Lewis bluffing to try and inflate the sky deal. On a personal note, i cant afford ESPN and sky sports so not sure what id do it was split down the middle. Id also be interested in seeing viewing figures and demographics if anyone knows where they would be ?

Quote ="Speccy":1zv1qhge'interested' and 'rumoured' go into the same box as 'alleged'. Clearly,ESPN will be interested and rumoured to be interested in RL,but that is far from knowing that they would come anywhere close to actually bidding,never mind out bidding Sky for the rights.Incidentally,if they were to do so,wait for the complaints from 'supporters',when they find out that Warrington v Hull is scheduled for 6.00pm on a thurs evening.Sky actively schedule against ESPN,meaning that ESPN have to counter by scheduling at inconvenient times,to 'beat' Sky. One area where the RFL may be able to get an improvement in terms,is for the thurs evening Championship game,which now regularly gets around 60,000 viewers on Sky Sports 4.'" :1zv1qhge www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcastin ... ights.html He added already show rugby union and it's logical for them to take a look at rugby league. There is a lot of interest and I think it's quite a buoyant market place for rugby league. I'm really encouraged." Seems like they would be interested, but i dont know how much this is just Lewis bluffing to try and inflate the sky deal. On a personal note, i cant afford ESPN and sky sports so not sure what id do it was split down the middle. Id also be interested in seeing viewing figures and demographics if anyone knows where they would be ?

www.cplg.com/properties/view/160 Nearly 1.75million spectators attended matches in 2009 and over 10 million watched the 2009 Super League season. www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/su ... to-go-from "Rugby League’s appeal as a television spectacle shows no sign of diminishing and viewing figures for Super League games in 2010 were again higher than those witnessed by the Aviva Premiership." What is undeniable is that more do watch Super League than the Aviva Premiership, but as someone said SKY want the product to look the best it can with their logo on the right hand corner, but they will pay the minimum amount possible to do this, they are a business and are interested in profit alone. If rugby league began to lose viewing figures than there would be a steep decline in the price they pay to have it on their screens. Another angle that has been brought up previously is the perception that rugby league is worth less to a broadcaster because the advertising revenue is less. This is one that gets banded about on the various forums, does anyone have anything to back this up one way or another.

www.cplg.com/properties/view/160 Nearly 1.75million spectators attended matches in 2009 and over 10 million watched the 2009 Super League season. www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/su ... to-go-from "Rugby League’s appeal as a television spectacle shows no sign of diminishing and viewing figures for Super League games in 2010 were again higher than those witnessed by the Aviva Premiership." What is undeniable is that more do watch Super League than the Aviva Premiership, but as someone said SKY want the product to look the best it can with their logo on the right hand corner, but they will pay the minimum amount possible to do this, they are a business and are interested in profit alone. If rugby league began to lose viewing figures than there would be a steep decline in the price they pay to have it on their screens. Another angle that has been brought up previously is the perception that rugby league is worth less to a broadcaster because the advertising revenue is less. This is one that gets banded about on the various forums, does anyone have anything to back this up one way or another.

I take it your not in sales then?

If I went in to my boss and said forget my sales target..given the current ecomonic climate and government spending cuts..it will be hard to get any increase in sales this year. Can you forget my sales target and accept ' a modest increase' instead...I can tell you I wouldnt be in a job for very long.

You seem to have disappeared up your BARB statistics manual and have formed a view that the viewing stats are the only tool on which we can argue for an increase. Yes this is an important element in the mix, but its not the only element. Competition is key to driving up prices as is the 'value' the broadcaster place on this element (SL) in their sport portfolio.

The RFL need to develop our brand better than they have been doing, and get some competition into the mix ASAP.

In Oz there is talk of a $1 Billion TV deal for the NRL - the main reason is competition between chennels, 9, 10 and Fox. I'm not saying we can come near theat sort of price, but we have to improve on current levels, or we're dead in the water.

football revenue from tv may have gone down but there is a long history of overpayment for the rights to football, cant really say they have overpaid for RL rights in the past

You are not wrong about this...



But totally wrong about this...

Wrexham - Population 43k
Wakefield - Population 80k
Castleford - Population 50k
Wrexham County Borough - Total Population - 130k
Wakefield District - Total Population - 324k

Wakefield is the 17th largest district in England, if Wrexham were in England, it would rank 157th! Wakefield is, as you know, is also in the 4th largest conurbation in the UK... Wrexham is not classed as being part of an urban conurbation and is classed as rural.

Companies like to appeal to areas with large demographics, like Wakefield... how much more wrong could you be!

Really, you think the marketing director of BMW is sitting there thinking, you know what, i wasnt going to sponsor/advertise during Rugby League but now we know that WMDC is the 17th largest district in England and Wakefield is in that (even though if you speak to any Wakefield or Castleford fan they would argue very very strongly that they WMDC is simply a political entity and the towns in WMDC are particularly disparate with very parochial attitudes) and they have attendances 2/3k more than Crusaders, Also they are in the 4th largest connurbation in the UK and completely overshadowed by Leeds and Bradford, we definitely want to be involved now we know Wakefield and Castleford are involved. Sod Wales, we want more small non-descript northern pit villages thats what BMW want to be associated with, not the entire country, not big cities, small northern towns which for all intents and purposed are simply suburbs of Leeds?

Why is this population comparison between Crusaders and Wakefield relevent anyway?

Apart from Wakefield been a city and having one of the largest BMW shops in the North of England you are right

Another thing to add, England/International games must be sold to the BBC, even if there bid is significantly lower than sky's

Do you feel better now? Well we got there in the end! You are clearly well balanced, having a chip on both shoulders! You just let all the angry local prejudice pour out... for a moment there you had me thinking that your desire to kick Wakefield out of Super League might actually be born out of an untainted belief that it would be better for the game if they went and Crusaders stayed. However, I was right, you just have issues with Wakefield.... did someone from Wakefield kill your dog, run off with your wife or something?

In answer to your question, the marketing manager at BMW has a huge marketing budget to go at and even Premiership football is below them, F1, World Cup, European Tour Golf, London Olympics etc are more in their league... they wouldn't even bother with RU... well maybe the RU world cup! However, marketing managers at companies looking to reach a diverse urban demographics would consider RL/SL sponsorship/advertisements because it would deliver this good demographic on a cheaper budget than other sports.

Yet for some reason BMW have a franchise in the "small northern town" of Wakefield and Leeds,Bradford,Huddersfield.
Yet only deem fit to have one franchise in the whole of North Wales.

Maybe BMW was a bad choice though considering that HJ BMW are Warringtons stadium sponsor. But that is more local franchise than interntional bmw.

Emirates do it. Dont know why always make me wonder when i go to games how many sales they get from it, but they are probably the biggest rep company to sponsor anyone in Super League.

Most of the time they are local nothern businesses like Engage but hopefully can see more bigger names this time around. BMW is pie in the sky though.

Quote ="Paull3v"Id also be interested in seeing viewing figures and demographics if anyone knows where they would be ?'" www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammes? BARB is the place to go, select the four SS channels, choose any week where 13 a-side code is played and it repeatedly shows Super League and the Championship in a very good light.

Quote ="Paull3v"Id also be interested in seeing viewing figures and demographics if anyone knows where they would be ?'" www.barb.co.uk/report/weeklyTopProgrammes? BARB is the place to go, select the four SS channels, choose any week where 13 a-side code is played and it repeatedly shows Super League and the Championship in a very good light.

All started at Leigh mate , all started at Leigh

Im sure there a many a leyther lurking in Dubai due to it ...

The Exec vice Chaiman is a leyther

Its nothing to do with Wakefield. I couldnt care less about them. Im not sure what you think was an insult to them, it is to all intents a purposes a suburb of leeds, its not an insult to them its just a fact of life. Pretend it expresses a hatred for all things Wakefield and makes you feel better, makes you feel like your whole 'lets support wakefield's franchise' isnt a nonsense borne out of your ego being stroked by their fans.


Would it . A big reason why RL struggles to get sponsorship is because it lacks a diverse range of Urban demorgraphics. It is, bar 3 clubs in the top flight and two in the lower leagues, working class, northern towns. And we only get sponsors with cheaper budgets because we have to sell our sponsorship at a lower price just to sell it, meaning we have to accept less money. This is why we get dumped with not top tier sponsors, not second tier sponsors, not generally even third tier sponsors which is why have to settle for the likes of Irn Bru and Engage Mutual paying much much nothing.

What is diverse about having 5 clubs in west yorkshire? You think marketing managers would be worried about not reaching a diverse enough range of people if we only had 4 clubs in West Yorkshire? Do you think we reach a more diverse range of people with 5 west yorkshire teams, or 4 west yorkshire teams and a welsh team?

Do tell Smokey...some of your points are absolutely spot on but if you think the very few thousand viewers , a very minute percentage of the audience, who switch on because of a team in Wrexham make some sort of impact on any prospective advertiser then you are miles away....

I think your looking at this the wrong way to be honest. From what it seems, ESPN and Sky have a very good relationship. ESPN are smart and not doing what Setanta did and that was instead of working with Sky Sports they tried to go against them. Nobody is gonna beat the biggest Sports Broadcaster in Europe!

It is more likely that ESPN and Sky would get a split deal working together. Now the clubs and RFL wouldnt want this as it will mean less money.



BBC has dropped Football League coverage for 2011/2012 season. They showd no interest in any kind of live or highlights package.

Dont think i disagree with you. In fact that was similar to the point I was making, just the opposite way round. No sponsor or advertiser is going to be swayed an even smaller percentage of the audience switching on because Wakefield are playing instead of Crusaders.

Crusaders are part of the expansion in to Wales, they are part of something much bigger than themselves and acting as the pinnacle of the welsh RL pyramid. Whilst in and of itself the 4/5k going in Wrexham is only a small part of what the RFL can take to the broadcasters, the much broader, wider and bigger growth of the game in Wales (and other areas) is an important aspect.

AG Barr(Irn Bru) -- not even third tier?
International brand,well established name,1000+ employees,turnover £200m+.

Thats nearly as funny as your BMW example.

Yes, compare AG Barr to McDonalds, Coca-cola, Barclays, Molson-Coors, Natwest, Diageo, Aviva, Nationwide, Vauxhall, Ford, RBS, total, DHL, UPS, Allianz, Carlsberg, Samsung who are all heavily involved in sport in this country and it looks kind to describe AG Barr as 3rd tier.

www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 36,00.html

www.skysports.com/opinion/story/ ... 36,00.html