R&C, is there any particular reason you keep quoting my post with no reply.

Sorry mate, wrong button.

You are wrong with you're interpretation of the rule by the way.

So at what point is the ball considered 'out'? when it bounces outside the field of play?

If the ball is kicked out and bounces in the field of play, then is caught by the opposition 4/5 feet outside the field of play is that still classed as the kicking teams head and feed?

The ball is considered out when it comes into contact with a player, ground any object etc outside of the field of play. The white line is considered outside

Then so is the RFL if you are right. I took it from their official rulebook.

Yes.

To put it into perspective, when a team kicks a 40/20 the opposing winger / fullback will try to bat the ball back into the field of play if it has crossed the line and not yet bounced. If the opposing player makes contact with the touchline or the area past it whilst handling the ball then the kicking team will receive possession.

That is because they are trying to avoid the ball going out of play. If it does go out of play the kicking team get the ball not because it was touched by the defending player whilst in touch but because it is a 40/20

The situation we are discussing is a player kicking the ball from say the half way line, the ball bouncing on the 30metre mark, but then being caught outside of the field of play, without bouncing outside of the field of play by the defending winger and the head and feed being given to the kicking side as the defending winger would be judged to have taken the ball outside of the field of play.

Right, I see your point now.

According to what I read earlier from the rulebook and the RFL's site the the situation you describe would mean that the kicking team received the ball, as happened on Monday.

If the ball bounces in the field of play it is considered 'live' until it bounces outside the field of play (excluding the dead ball area). So if a defending player touches the ball before it bounces again outside of the field of play then he is considered to have taken it over.

But this is not what happened on Monday.

It wasn't a 40/20 kick.
Whiting caught the ball as he was stood on the white line hence the moment he touches the ball it becomes touch. He didn't make it touch. Head and feed should have gone to Hull.

Had he caught the ball a split second before touching the white line then its head and feed to Saints.

That's not what it says in the rulebook though. It states that the scenario you just mentioned is only applicable when the bull sails out on the full, without bouncing.

That's the official rule from the official rulebook, I do have to say before reading it I would of agreed with you, however the opinion I had and that you currently have is unfortunately wrong.

I dont know which rule you're looking at but can assure you the decision on Monday was wrong.

Surely if its caught on the full without bouncing then thats ballback anyway.

I would of agreed with you originally mate, but have a look at the rules regarding a player making contact with the ball in touch.

Yeah, it is ball back on the full, but that's the only time a player can handle it in touch without it going to the opposition. The ball must bounce in touch first.

If the defender catches the ball in touch after jumping from inside the field then he is deemed to have made it touch.

If the defender catches the ball in touch after jumping or standing outside of the field (on the whit line if you like) then it is deemed to be already in touch. This is what happened on Monday.

Yeah I know, but the rulebook is what I said before.

Need to go to bed now mate but try to link the bit out of the rule book and I'll take a look tomorrow.

I'll see if I can find it again

, it wasn't easy.

I can't see anything in the Laws that makes any distinction regarding it going out on the full.



As soon as Whiting touched the ball it was in touch. As Saints had kicked the ball into touch they should have been regarded as the "offending" team, hence Hull's head and feed:

Exactly. In the scenario we saw, the ball hitting Whiting, who is stood in touch, is no different than the ball hitting the corner flag.

www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... 2007_%20(2).pdf Quote SECTION 9 TOUCH AND TOUCH IN-GOAL Ball in touch 1. The ball is in touch when it or a player in contact with it touches the touch line or the ground beyond the touch line or any object on or outside the touch. Tackled player in line except when a player, tackled in the field of play, touch on rising steps into touch as he regains his feet in which case he shall play the ball in the field of play. Jumping player- The ball is in touch if a player jumps from touch and knocks ball back while off the ground touches the ball. The ball is not in touch if during flight it crosses the touch line but is knocked back by a player who is off the ground after jumping from the field of play. Touch in-goal 2. The ball is in touch in-goal when it or a player in contact with it touches the touch in-goal line, or any object on or outside the touch in-goal line. Points of Entry 3. When a ball has entered touch or touch in-goal, the point of entry shall be taken as the point at which the ball first crossed the touch or touch in-goal line. Ball back 4. If the ball is kicked by or bounces off a player in a forward direction (except from in-goal – Section 8 No.4 (e) and it goes into touch on the full, a scrum is formed where contact with the ball was made except after the fifth play-the-ball (but not nearer than twenty metres to the touch line or ten (10) metres to the goal line) – (see Section 12). Touch from 5. If the ball is kicked into touch from a penalty kick the Penalty game is restarted by a free kick ten metres in-field opposite the point of entry into touch. (see Section 13).Scrum on ‘20 6. Other than as outlined in paras. 4 and 5 above, the game is restarted after the ball has gone into touch by forming a scrum twenty metres in-field opposite the point of entry into touch but not nearer than ten (10) metres to the goal line – (see Section 12). 7. In all aspects of general play, a player who does not deliberately play at the ball (eg. ricochet or rebound) will not be disadvantaged by a consequent restart of play when the ball has gone dead or into touch. NOTES Player not “object” 1. and 2. A player is not considered to be an “object”. For example, the ball is not in touch when the player in possession, himself being in the field of play, is in contact with another player who is in touch. Ball Dead 1. Where the ball which is stationary in the field of play or the ingoal area comes in contact with a player in touch, touch ingoal or over the dead ball line, the ball is deemed to have been made dead by that player. Dead Ball line restarts Should a kick be made dead by a defending player straddling the dead ball line or touch in-goal line, play will restart with a goal line drop-out. Corner post 2. A corner post placed at the intersection of a touch line and touch in-goal a goal line is in touch in-goal. It is a duty of a touch judge to replace a corner post which is displaced during the game. 3. See Section 8. No.4 (e) in respect of kicking into touch on the full from in-goal.'"

www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... 2007_%20(2).pdf Quote SECTION 9 TOUCH AND TOUCH IN-GOAL Ball in touch 1. The ball is in touch when it or a player in contact with it touches the touch line or the ground beyond the touch line or any object on or outside the touch. Tackled player in line except when a player, tackled in the field of play, touch on rising steps into touch as he regains his feet in which case he shall play the ball in the field of play. Jumping player- The ball is in touch if a player jumps from touch and knocks ball back while off the ground touches the ball. The ball is not in touch if during flight it crosses the touch line but is knocked back by a player who is off the ground after jumping from the field of play. Touch in-goal 2. The ball is in touch in-goal when it or a player in contact with it touches the touch in-goal line, or any object on or outside the touch in-goal line. Points of Entry 3. When a ball has entered touch or touch in-goal, the point of entry shall be taken as the point at which the ball first crossed the touch or touch in-goal line. Ball back 4. If the ball is kicked by or bounces off a player in a forward direction (except from in-goal – Section 8 No.4 (e) and it goes into touch on the full, a scrum is formed where contact with the ball was made except after the fifth play-the-ball (but not nearer than twenty metres to the touch line or ten (10) metres to the goal line) – (see Section 12). Touch from 5. If the ball is kicked into touch from a penalty kick the Penalty game is restarted by a free kick ten metres in-field opposite the point of entry into touch. (see Section 13).Scrum on ‘20 6. Other than as outlined in paras. 4 and 5 above, the game is restarted after the ball has gone into touch by forming a scrum twenty metres in-field opposite the point of entry into touch but not nearer than ten (10) metres to the goal line – (see Section 12). 7. In all aspects of general play, a player who does not deliberately play at the ball (eg. ricochet or rebound) will not be disadvantaged by a consequent restart of play when the ball has gone dead or into touch. NOTES Player not “object” 1. and 2. A player is not considered to be an “object”. For example, the ball is not in touch when the player in possession, himself being in the field of play, is in contact with another player who is in touch. Ball Dead 1. Where the ball which is stationary in the field of play or the ingoal area comes in contact with a player in touch, touch ingoal or over the dead ball line, the ball is deemed to have been made dead by that player. Dead Ball line restarts Should a kick be made dead by a defending player straddling the dead ball line or touch in-goal line, play will restart with a goal line drop-out. Corner post 2. A corner post placed at the intersection of a touch line and touch in-goal a goal line is in touch in-goal. It is a duty of a touch judge to replace a corner post which is displaced during the game. 3. See Section 8. No.4 (e) in respect of kicking into touch on the full from in-goal.'"

Just watching the Huddersfield Saints game from the weekend and noticed that 2:08 into the game the ball is kicked by Danny Brough into Saints' in-goal area. It bounces in the in-goal area and is caught from this bounce by Gardener who has a foot in touch-in-goal. A 20m restart is awarded to Saints.

Gardener was straddling the touch in-goal line. It should have been a drop out.

Yes he would. Bentham is from Leigh, not Warrington.

From the kick off, if a receiving player is straddling the dead ball line when he takes the ball, if the ball has bounced, a goal line drop out should be awarded as the ball has gone out of play. If the ball has not bounced when he catches it, it is a penalty on half way as the catching player did not take it dead, it is already dead if/when he catches it.

From a kick in general play, whether the ball bounces or not, if a player catches the ball straddling the dead ball line, it is a 20 metre restart as the ball is deemed already dead because he caught it when outside the field of play.

With regards to the Whiting incident, as the kick was in general play and he jumped from out of play, the ball is already dead when he touched it, whether he touched the ball inside the playing area or not. It is about where he jumped from, not where he touched it. If he touched it having come from out of play, play goes on as if he didnt touch it and it just went out of play.

Before anyone questions me, I have passed the RFL match official course and that is my interpretation of the rules.