Ok, no problems, and maybe the terms further forward and also pole-position are misleading.

I firstly think that whichever way you look at it at the moment, it is tight! Salford seemingly have finance in place but of course the majority of that is coming from the local authority. Although work has started on site I am not aware (and I could be wrong here, but I usually hear about these things in my day job) of any sub-structure and super-structure subbies having order as yet placed and the current main contract order still only extends to enabling works.

Wakefield have the money but that totally relies on the official political crap phase of the next 20+ days going to plan! If it doesn't they could be in serious trouble, but I can only see that decision going one way and that Yorkcourt having someone contracted to do the whole stadium project pre-Christmas and then on site in February is very likely.

Castleford, like Salford have all the official stuff out of the way but still have not submitted a reserved matters application or have revealed much in the way of detail about the scheme. They have issues with Wheldon Road, which I understand is not sold at all, but has an option, they don't seem to have all the money required to complete even if they do get started and if what I have heard to day from a colleague turns out to be true, then they do have problems.

I am not putting any of these clubs down and my heartfelt wish is that we keep them all in SL and boot the failed Crusaders experiment into touch. I am just calling it as I see it and based on some industry knowledge.

I know where you are coming from and I understand your frustrations but if only the construction industry was that simple... we could do with out QS's and construction lawyers!



I have been in this industry too long and let me tell you I have not won a project until the main contractor/client returns and seals the contract! I am never 100% sure if I will get paid, with all the credit checks in the world, until they approve my first valuation... even then what they give me and what I say I have built and should be paid for or any valuation is nearly always different and always less!

Savills are an large astute company with a full understand what a real contract and a sham contract look like and that is they only way you will get any certainty... even then, it is never certain till the keys are handed over!

The trolling accusation comes from wakey fans who cannot tolerate a different viewpoint. They want to write about me and I want to write about RL. Go figure.

You and the RFL could well be able to tell me which, if any, stadiums will be ready. However by using Savills, a reputable business, the RFL can claim to have an independent view. That makes sense.

I think a 'lead body' should get good quality professional advice. If they want good legal advice then they should consult a high quaity law firm. Likewise it makes sense to consult someone like Savills re the stadium builds. Would you prefer Rimmer and Wood to make decisions on whether a stadium will be ready in Feb 2012 based on what they see and discover in may/June 2011? I would not. Indeed if Rimmer and Wood opted to make these decisions there would be some posters only to happy to slag them off for doing so.

So comparing Salford and Wakefield only:
Both Wakefield and Salford have the money in place (in Salford's case £10million loan from local authority and the same from Peel, not sure where the funding for Wakefield is coming from?).
Salford have all the red tape sorted out, Wakefield have not.
Salford have started work on site (£4million from NWDA spent on enabling due to be completed Nov 5th), Wakefield have not started on site yet.
The successful bidder for the Stadium phase of Salford's is expected next week, not sure about Wakefields?

Yes, I think the terms "further forward" and "pole position" do look a little misleading

If they're laying bricks and the stadium will be built before the end of that franchise round then I don;t see why you wouldn;t count it. Seems a bit pedantic to say no points when they may be only 12months out from moving into a modern stadia. Fair enough if building hasn;t started but if it has then what's the problem?

I know all about the construction industry , having been in it 20 odd years , and I can tell if a stadium is 4/5 months from completion , I dont need a company like Savilles to tell me , =#FF0000neither do the RFL , they refused to acknowledge the LSV when it was right in front of them with only internal finishing beeding to be done

They just dont have the bottle

Utter bollox

It boils down to them not having the backbone to make a decision

It does make sense and I 100% support it but I think Savills have been asked to give their opinion on who is most likely to currently succeed and if so when exactly the ground will be finished. I think that will play a big part in the final decision.

to have somebody else make a decision for them

People wonder why our sport is not taken seriously by the media and people who dont watch it

Actually you are giving me some new information there, so that news is a little more positive than last time I heard any gossip about it.

Now, this £10m from Peel, I heard the the loan from the council was for the full £20m and the £10m from Peel was conditional and only once the stadium is built? That left Salford with £10m to pay off the council over what I assume to be a lengthy period?

If they are close to an appointing a main contractor for the stadium build then that is a big step, but like I said there is not one currently, but if they sort that then they are then well and truly in pole-position.

Wakefield's money is coming from the developer, Wakefield College, the sale of Belle Vue and some borrowed money, like Salford, but Wakefield MDC has given Wakefield and Cas a portion of land with an asset value of £2m to use as loan security only, so a little less risky for the LA. There is also some money being talked about from maybe the lottery to supplement the community sport facilities, meaning they could build the corners into the ground straight away, but I understand they have enough to finish it without the corners, with any grant monies.

So Saville's will be looking at bits of paper to decide for the RFL who will stay in SL

What a joke ' sport ' , we have become

Hang on, you are missing the point!

Lets use Salford as the example given what northmanchesterdevil has said about them being close to appointing a main contractor and issuing contracts for the build. Lets say that the programme, if they start on site, has them finishing after Feb 2012 but lets say before the end of 2012. In the next few weeks once the contracts have been sorted out, they all get signed and sorted and they start work after Christmas on Salford's ground with a completion of mid 2012. Lots of money, jobs and finance committed and they are off, then 2 months later (is it March of June the final announcement) the RFL say to Salford, sorry boys errr, well, you are out you didn't get any points for your ground (forget Wakey and Cas here please) because it was never going to be finished by Feb 2012! But we have started, we and our investors have based our investments in retaining our current SL status... you will bankrupt us! Then it will end up in court!

You can't crap on any club like that (and while Leigh & Widnes were crapped on, it was never going to pull them down).

That all said, if they don't have any contract signed and any prospect of building a new ground before the final announcement is due then it is tough... no big money investors or commitments that could end up in a successful court battle and they won't go out of business directly as a result of the RFL decision!

Yet when they decided to 'reject' the LSV you suggest they lack backbone! You seem to accuse them of lacking backbone whether they make decisions or not.

Or do they lack backbone only when they make a decision you cannot stomach?

I don't know what sector of the construction industry you are in mate but the whole of the construction industry revolves around paper, from drawings, calculations, programmes, specifications, scope of works, codes of practise, risk assessments, health & safety packs, cost plans and finally contracts and therefore money!

Pull them down ? , in what way ?

So Salford , Wakey and Cas are only going to build if they get to stay in SL , so what happens if they bring back Promotion and relegation

" Sorry you cant relegate us , we've had the council build us a shiney new stadium "

No it doesn't work like that , if it did then Doncaster , then Leigh and then Fax should have been promoted as soon as they got a stadium sorted

If the stadium is dependant on continuous SL membership then tough you dont get a stadium

Last time you had to have PLAYED IN the stadium for it to be counted , same should apply this time , no problem then is there

Totally untrue. Savilles will advise the RFL on the readiness of stadiums re Feb 2012 and this will be considered when the 'facilities criteria' are being rated. Savilles will not be used to assess the other categories.

None of which you can actually play RL in

How long can clubs constantly keep breaking promises , only one thing matters

Steel, concrete and bricks , with a pitch covered with grass in the middle , anything else is just paper , not a stadium

At this moment in time there is only ONE criteria that will guarantee either Cas,Wakey or Salford a SL place in 2012

A stadium , everything else at this moment is irrelivant , and you know that , they are all level pegging on virtually all the other crieria

If two get a stadium , the one that doesn't goes down , it really is that simple , it only gets complicated when none of them get a stadium , thats why the RFL need a ' Patsy ' to blame

TBF unlike the Wakey board we don't respond to his posts with 'praise be to the Lord' so may actually differ in opinions

not a pop at the guy whatsoever and he does some good work getting messgaes across on your board but sometimes people can be easily led by 'those in the know'.

What troubles me is your now saying none will be ready by start of 2012 realistically, so why are all clubs bar Saints saying this is the case?

I take it Wakey's is being paid for by the 'developer' and I can only presume will be reimbursed by rents of stadium and units... though that won't come at once so is the full capital their to push ahead as soon as get the nod? In times where their are empty units in some of the biggest urban cities will you fill all units and cover costs that way?

They refused to acknowledge it existed , despite walking round it 3 months earlier , not a case of lack of backbone , just outright corruption , instead they praised the Celtic Crusaders for having ' plans ' for a new stadium near Bridgend , that worked out well , didn't it

I can't believe you can't grasp this, for start they will have another three years if they do bring back promotion & relegation.

So, with your rules Salford, Castleford, Wakey and now also Saints have to give up before the deadline. That is fine, someone tell Salford Council that they can keep there £20m because it is all over before the have even filled out the application forms. There is no point in investing in us because we are are all in NL1.

Widnes, Leigh & Halifax and one other are in, done deal... so now how does the system look and how do the RFL look? That's right, we are not interested in anyone investing in these 4 clubs anyway we never wanted them to get new facilities and new grounds... they all just looked like they could have the potential to be as successful as Warrington and who wants that. Widnes, Leigh and Halifax have great grounds as well, we don't need any more!

It also gets complicated if all three get their stadiums built (which I know you don't think is possible, Starbug).

Problem here is as we've seen before a club will get the npd and then they could still say oh well X funding didn't actually come off or we thought this permission / safety issue would be covered by now and it isn't. That stuff can still happen after Savilles review.

As Starbug say's overall they will just be used as a tool to hide behind. They got lucky Widnes as a club didn't go against them after last round and Tricky Dicky got quite pally with SO'C to ensure we didn't cause any issues and we'll be rewarded for that. However they know if / when they boot a SL side out due to more severe financially implications they will be hit back at hard no matter who it is, so are simply looking for people to hide behind.

Lewis got utteryly burnt on NW tonight after last round of franchises so will now use this Rimmer bloke to have a full set of answers lined up and prob walk away the day after annnouncements to save any 'lay blame' messages.

Leigh did it , Widnes did it , Doncaster did it , Fax have done it

It isn't me that is making the stadium the issue here , it is the RFL , problem is they are that thick , they couldn't see this coming