the nswrl / ARL was the benchmark club competition in the world

the gap between the nswrl and the brl is the same as the nrl and SL now

lewis achievements in club football in brisbane are lessened because its an easier comp. than the sydney comp.

ive not seen a player dominate the nswrl / arl / nrl like johns did for years

i conceed lewis had a much better origin career, and a better international career.

but the difference is more than made up in johns club achievements.

and im not biased ive given the king credit for his origin and international achievements.

andrew johns carried that newcastle side to against the odds win against manly, the best defensive team in the history of RL at the time, and parra, the best attacking team in the history of Oz RL at the time

You are just repeating yourself.

Lewis a decade. Johns 5 years.

Lewis wins.

Murphy was a better halfback than Johns. Comparing Lewis with Murphy is the more interesting exercise.

Experts judge footballers at the top level - which is international when you look at the history of the game from 1895-2010.

What does that mean?

Starting to sound like Rex Mossop.

lewis played 3 good games a year for 8 years and basically didnt do much the rest.

joey had to be on top of his game for 25 top games a year

if lewis was such a good player why didnt he achieve much in the ARL?

www.sportsonline.com.au/item.aspx?id=8156&cID=12

www.sportsonline.com.au/item.aspx?id=8156&cID=12

So which were the good three games in 1984 for Lewis?

Remember he won 7 out of 10 man of the match awards against the best players.

lol

His victims to repeat:-

* Souths Brisbane, Brisbane GF (Souths had poor players like Meninga, Belcher, Lindner, Phelan & Jackson)
* Souths Sydney (top 5 in 1984)
* Canterbury (Sydney premiers 1984; also winners 1985)
* Parramatta (Sydney runner-up 1984; winners 1981, 1982, 1983)
* Easts Sydney
* NSW
* Great Britain

I hope that isn't one of your 6 "experts"...

Andrew Johns
Records
# Most ever points scored in a season (279 in 2001).
# Most points ever scored by an individual in premiership history: 2,176
# Most points scored on international debut: 30
# Most points scored in a test match: 32
# Most goals in a test match: 12

Awards
# Dally M Medal (best player in the NRL competition): 3 (1998, 1999 and 2002)
# Provan-Summons Medal (fans' favourite player): 5 (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002)
# Rugby League World Golden Boot Award (best player in the world): (1999 and 2001)
# Clive Churchill Medal (man-of-the-match in grand final): 1 (2001)
# Dally M 'Representative Player of the Year' Award: 1 (2005)
# Player of the Series - Australia v Great Britain: 2001
# Most Valuable Player of the Tournament at the 1995 World Cup in England
# State of Origin man-of-the-match: 4 (Game 2, 1996; Game 1, 2002; Game 2, 2003 and Game 2, 2005)
# Voted #1 in the 'Modern Masters Top 30 Players of the Past 30 Years' poll (Rugby League Week)

All the players mentioned were great players and it is a matter of opinion who is, or was best.

Comparisons between eras are almost impossible.

Coke or Pepsi?

Who made tab clear?

www.theherald.com.au/news/local/ ... 86438.aspx "Johns took top spot on a countback from Queensland god Wally Lewis, who gained Immortal status in 1999. Brad Fittler, Darren Lockyer and Allan Langer rounded out the top five." "Lenehan said the magazine commissioned six judges to name the Modern Masters the 30 best players from 1978-2007 "and it was Andrew Johns who reigned supreme". Lenehan was joined on the selection panel by former RLW editors Tony Durkin and Norman Tasker, league historian David Middleton, former NSW and Australian forward Mark Geyer and RLW journalist Tony Adams." there you go OD

www.theherald.com.au/news/local/ ... 86438.aspx "Johns took top spot on a countback from Queensland god Wally Lewis, who gained Immortal status in 1999. Brad Fittler, Darren Lockyer and Allan Langer rounded out the top five." "Lenehan said the magazine commissioned six judges to name the Modern Masters the 30 best players from 1978-2007 "and it was Andrew Johns who reigned supreme". Lenehan was joined on the selection panel by former RLW editors Tony Durkin and Norman Tasker, league historian David Middleton, former NSW and Australian forward Mark Geyer and RLW journalist Tony Adams." there you go OD

Players are bigger, faster, stronger today than ever before. Today's player is clearly better than his counterpart from 45 years ago, but the comparison isn't a fair one, because of the changes in medical treatment, diet, full time professionalism etc etc. All we can do is compare players against their rivals at the time.

I think it safe to assume that if Murphy had been born 45 years later, and had the benefits of full time training, modern healthcare and dietary knowledge, then he would have been a great player in today's game.

fair post.

And there is the crux of the argument - I don't understand how anybody who hasn't seen both play can comment

I didn't see Murphy play (save some video) so I don't know who was best

As for Lewis vs. Johns which is a major part of this thread - I did see both, and while Johns was a great player, and I would go for Lewis

As great as a player Johns is he is no Wally Lewis that's for sure,and in my opinion Brett Kenny is better than the pair of them but it's all about opinions.

This.

This what?

I wonder if Mark Geyer voted for Johns or Lewis?

I'll respect Mark Geyer's opinion (although he may be biased) because he's actually played against some of these guys, but the others are merely journalists and writers whose opinions are no more valid than anyone on this forum.

I also have grave misgivings about the judgement of any selection committee who can rank Fittler ahead of Kenny.

Funny enough I just saw Andrew Johns in Mona Vale this afternoon. What are the odds? I should've said. "Didn't you used to play Rugby League for Warrington?"

Back to the question being British(and biased) it has to be Murphy,without a shadow of a doubt.

In my view Murphy was withoubt doubt the best rugby player ever - and that comes from a Wiganer.

He had a phenomenal turn of speed and was as tough as nails, but so do many top players. More than any other player in the history of the sport, Murphy dictated the way a game unfurled whether with the ball or without. He controlled his own team magnificently, he dominated the opposition and in a way I have never seen since he put referees into his back pocket. The nickname 'Murphy the mouth' was well deserved. His knowledge, planning and understanding of the ebb and thrust of a match are unparalleled. His tactics at Wembley in 1966 caused the RFL to change the rules of the game. His antics to get an opponent sent off at Wembley in 1971 illustrate his control.

When Murphy was in the opposition side playing against your own team, you only watched and despised Murphy. When he played for GB, you loved to watch the reaction of the Aussie players.

He had this success over a long period and at three clubs (St Helens, Leigh and Warrington) and continued after his playing career ended.

Johns was terrific - but he was not Alex Murphy

My Dad has seen both play and he thinks Murphy is one of the best, between him and Shaun Edwards. He rates Wally Lewis and Alfie Langer higher than Johns.

They are from different eras and from different games really. Rugby League of Murphy's era is completely different to Johns' era.

Unfortunately, I don't have room to list Lewis's achievements here. They dwarf those.

Lewis wasn't a goal kicker so the points and goal records are irrelevant.

I also don't place a lot of stock in awards like the Dally M or the previous Rothmans (both have best and fairest considerations). Lewis was never popular with the refs who used to vote on these things.

Lewis won double the number of man of the match awards in Origin. 8. Says it all, really.