Let the Skolars take over the "London" franchise.

Just thought I'd throw that in with the other dingbat rhubarb being posted on this subject.

Not a £2m loan, he wants money he put in, paid back. He bought another club and is not prepared to walk away from the one he started with. This money is money he put in of his own free-will, like every other majority owner of a SL club to some degree. It was spread out over a few years, not a £2m loan to save an immediate future on some imaginary date throughout his majority ownership.

Pot / Kettle / Black

Thursday 30th September 1999, [i"The Sharks are deeply in debt, and after the merger a club with Hull's name is likely to play in the division from which they escaped relegation, the Northern Ford Premiership. The newly-merged club are likely to play on in the north east rather than East Yorkshire" [/i

[i"The Association of Premiership Clubs blocked proposals for the newly merged company to enter a separate Hull-based team in the Northern Ford Premiership and so the new club would be called Hull FC and play all its home games in Hull. This was widely seen as a takeover simply to allow Hull to remain in Super League."[/i

Tuesday 16th November 1999, [i"Super League clubs yesterday gave their unanimous backing for a merger between Gateshead and Hull Sharks. The move brings to an end Super League rugby in Gateshead as the newly-formed club will play in Hull. The merger's acceptance means the new club will receive £1.25m over two years."[/i

i like that

Quins are doing a fantastic job. They deserve every beat of help the RFL give them. The work they are putting in on the ground over a geographically massive area is superb.

Its a shame and I dont like to see anyone out of work, but I think its time to just let Harlequins go. Professional rugby league in london is never going to work

Lets just go back to the M62. Hmm lets see what Murdock thinks!!! Stick to your village fate mentality

I am still to be convinced by this SL need a team in London otherwise the Sky TV deal goes down. The people who have sky subscriptions in the south that are linked to RL, are most likely to be supporters of heartland clubs teams who have relocated to London, or Aussies. There cannot be a large proportion of subscriptions for Sky sports based on the existence of Harlequins for two reasons (1) They only average c3k fans and (2) they are hardly ever on Sky Sports (so people purchasing a subscription to watch them say 4 times a season - can't see it myself.

I suspect far more subscribers would be lost from the Northern area, if Sky reduced the income, thus in turn forcing some of the traditional heartlands clubs out of a smaller SL, or if a broadcasting deal was done with someone else. I know quite a few who only subscribe to Sky Sports because of SL.

If Sky want a london team so much, the simplest solution is that they should increase the sponsorship deal so that we can accommodate Widnes with the existing 14 clubs without each clubs share of the money being affected. The only problem with this is that Harlequins seem to be struggling with the share they get at the moment, and whilst undoubtedly clubs like my own (Wakey) aren't exactly rolling in cash, we are certainly not being supported by the major shareholders to anyhting like GBP 1.5m a year.

The bottom line here is whatever anyone thinks about the benefits or otherwise of a SL team in London, it woul be plainly wrong and possibly lead to a legal challenge if the RFL were to kick out either Wakey or Cas, if in a clear and transparent franchise process, they both scored more points than Harlequins (or Harlequins could only continue with significant cash being stumped up by the RFL)

The numbers don't lie - the interest for Quins in SL just is not there in terms of attendances, no Quins fan can honestly say that 2000-3000 is anywhere near good enough for a Super League team.

Right then. Feeding time is it? OK.
HullKingstonAustraliaforever....you need to lie down matey. What, with Quins RL asking for clarification on who is allowed own what and who is responsible for what, you seem to think the club have asked for a handout. They haven't. They have asked that the IL situation be cleared up. David Hughes is currently propping up 100% of the club he owns 35% of and that is unacceptable. As it is, Harlequins Rugby League, as of this moment in time have no overdraft, no banc or commercial loans and are self sufficient. David Hughes has had enough of the RFL lingering on the 65% owned by the chairman of the Wigan Warriors and has decided to ask for a resolution of this.
I repeat, Quins RL have no debt......just a chairman with the patience of a saint.
Roofs.......you know mw better pal. I have always said that, IMO opinion the club was badly run and what is happening now would seem to prove me right. I still say, if we step down, we will do so with no debt. Widnes will replace us and they will be a credit to SL......but let's not forget the other clubs in SL with debts....real debts by the way, owed to banks. Let's not forget how these debts were run up.......chasing the ellusive SL dream.....at the expense of youth development.
Lastly on this point I would like to point out this little factoid....Harlequins RL and the Broncos before them ARE responsible for the growth of RL in the capital and the south east. The RFL opened an office in London in 2006........who do you think employs the most community coaches in London in 2010...the RFL or Quins RL?
As I say, in my opinion, the club has been badly run for many years, but the losses that DH is currently taking are in some part down to work being done by the club that is really the responsibility of the RFL.

It really is a sad day for the sport when certain people, who are supposedly fans of RL take some form of pleasure in picking over the bones of a club in trouble. As is happening in Cumbria, the game is facing an uncertain future and yet these "fans" seem to take pleasure in it not being their club in trouble........well, I for one hope that the uncertainty in London and Cumbria never befalls your clubs. Not because of you, but because of the 99.99% of decent fans who it will affect.

You couldn't be more wrong - I like the Cumbrian clubs, it's a great RL area, and I honestly hope that Haven manage to sort themselves out.

GF obviously in reality you won't be kicked out of SL. Like I said before, according to the Hull Daily Mail Crusaders, Quins & Cats are all safeguarded from the boot because of the expansion campaign, so you'll almost certainly get another franchise.

You miss the point roofs.
Like it or not, in the modern era, League needs to be seen as more than a local sport...it needs to be national. London RL are a badly managed business, but they are key to the growth of the game. I have said, if Quins need to step down, then so be it, but if they do and the RFL are left with 12 community coaches wages to pay in the south east, together with equipment, transport etc...I think you will see the RFL's profit drop by a few quid next year.
Haven and all the other clubs that are in trouble (some of the in the top league) are all suffering as a result of the economic downturn. Quins are in trouble for a whole different set of reasons, most of their own making, but some, outside their control.

DH wants the IL share issue sorted. He isn't looking for anything other than a chance to attract an investor/investors who at present are not interested due to IL's stance on his investment in the club to date.

I repeat.....the picking over the bones and the nad rubbing are in bad taste foofs....regardless of who the club is and I hope that financial strife never hits East Hull...........oh, hang on



As for being bolted on for a licence.......the Hull Daily Mail may have a source at Red Hall who knows something we don't, but if Quins RLgo under, even though it won't be administration, they would not be able to compete in SL next year...and would therefore have to drop down to CH1 and try to build from there.

As other members have pointed out, you seem to be perhaps placing too much belief in Quins' importance to SL.

IMO SL would be just as strong (well, stronger) without Quins.



Nah that won't happen - new name, new ground, 'new era' - works everytime for London RL.

I didn't make up the desire from the broadcast partner to have a london team in SL. I also didn't make up the alleged reaction and pressure exerted by the RFL in 2005 when the Broncos folded and were re-admitted to SL. Neither do I have any influence over the numbers published by the RFL with regard to participants of the game in the south east and I can assure you that I do not pay the wages of 12 community coaches......and neither do the RFL.
I have no idea exactly how important a London team is to SL......but I do believe that a senior london team, in SL or CH1 is key to the growth of the game of Rugby League from a local M62 Pastime to a national sport.

As you were well aware for 10 years, there is life in RL outside Superleague roofs......and if Quins need to experience that, then so be it. But.....and this is the important bit here roofs. If I said to you in 1995 that a London SL club would be producing its own youth players, some of whom were good enough for selection to the England team, you would have looked at me like I was sipping domestos! This development programme has been solely funded by the clubs owners but is to the benefit of the game in general. Also, the plans and pathway laid out by the sports governing body dictates that the clubs involved in the sport need to stop relying on overseas players...and for whatever reason, Quins RL are the most British team in superleague.

Whilst you are a passionate HKR fan roofs, you do come across as a bit of an idiot at times. London RL (broncos crusaders fulham quins....) have had a nomadic existance. from the days of Fulham, through the dark crusaders era, the Broncos buy in, Branson, Hughes, Hughes lenegan and now hughes again, everyone apart from Hughes has had the short term goal of making money.
David hughes throws money at the club and he never expects to get a penny back. He does it because of his love of the game...not superleague, but the game. More kids have grown up playing the game of RL because of him and he has now made it clear that a lot of what he is paying for isn't really his responsibility.
I don't want a new name. Nor a new ground or era. I want quins to survive, but not at the expense of another, better suited team. As I say, if it's the Championship then so be it......but the glee and happiness of some on this thread is very very disturbing.
I am better placed than most on here as a "fan" to say I told you so...I have banged on about the clubs failures (on these boards, face to face, on the phone and with the RFL) for years, but it is not the rugby side of the business I have issues with.....and it is the rugby side of the business that the RFL need to consider helping. I don't want 1 brass farthing from the RFL to protect those responsible for this.........but I do want the RFL to take up the running of the community work in the south east. You never Know roofs.....in a few more years you can stop paying overseas players and start paying cockney talent

Does this not cover the debt that Quins say they don't have



Seem's now the RFL have paid off Lennegan to safeguard Quins future... make of that what you will!

Quins RL do not owe IL a penny. He was the owner, he invested his cash........and he didn't get a return. Them's the chances you take in business and for him to refuse to release his shares (as he was told to do by the RFL) was madness.


I will be interested to see exactly what has been agreed between the 3 parties involved. If the RFL have paid lenegan, then they need their heads examined....he had no legal recourse...he didn't loan the club money, he invested as an owner.
I would think that the more believable situation would be that IL 's shares are going to be held by the RFL until such time that they can sell them for him (ie...make the club self sufficient). In the interim, (and I pray to god this is what is happening) the RFL will take over the day to day running of the club and therefore, we might finally see some movement on the 1 area that will make the club successful....it begins with M ends in G and has the letters "arketin" in between.

Are you completely stupid , this is the RFL we are talking about , marketing

TBH......(and I have to be careful here as I was sworn to secrecy) they actually made a profit from both WCC warm up games at the stoop. They worked hard, they put in the hours and they got a return on their investment. Alas, the person mainly responsible is no longer active in London RL, but they did show what can be achieved.

Maybe that person could convince the RFL to let him have a go at marketing the lower tiers , and give him a decent budget to do it

He's in America Now......Don't know why they let him leave. He was not only a good RL player, but also very well educated (Oxbridge)and 100% commited!

So it makes good business sence then to have a business loosing 1.5m a year hardly any fans to go watch them no income what so ever and prospects of winning something zero because you want rugby league to be seen in all it's glory yea looks really good to me doesn't it rugby league in London is not working and has done nothing to raise the profile of the game just because it's in the capatal isn't going to make a difference

Quins really need to rebuild, but not in Superleague. The RFL should have laid a better foundation and generated 2 London teams in the championship, this would provide a better progression. Also there would be a meaningful derby match instead of a team in geographic isolation.
I can see the gripe with DH and IL and the RFL, DH sounds loyal and dedicated, but his complaint is justified in putting all the money into the club as a minority shareholder, despite the RFL back pedalling on the IL issue which had a deadline of 2009. The RFL don,t help out either in expanding the game (financially) in the area and leaving to the Quins to be the "master of all" at the the costs of DH.
On the Quins negative side, the club does not have the fanbase even after all these years in whichever disquise you prefer, there away support is non existent. Also I can,t see them prospering under the umbrella of Harleqins Rugby Union Club without interference from the Union Code.
If nothing is done.................then we will have another 26 years of Deja Vu.

Is this development programme solely responsible for Harlequins RL’s current financial crisis?

I’m not having a go at your club here, but I can’t get my head around the scale which this development must take to rack up such debts year on year. Most clubs run community programmes, but it is not, or shouldn't be, allowed to become detrimental to the club itself. If this were to be the case then the club would simply cut back on it. Are Harlequins not allowed to do this?

It may be detrimental to the Quins bringing through local youngsters, but that must be a better option than ending up going to the wall?

I truly hope Quins come out of the other side of this and are healthier for it. Quins fans and other clubs fans alike can see that changes need to be made. I also think if the figures are correct regarding growth of the game in the capital and the majority of this being down to Quins then this is wrong and needs looking at. I fully believe the RFL will use the failure of Quins, should it happen, to cut the payments to clubs greatly and use it as a fairly hefty bargaining tool with the RFL. Maybe fans should think about this before wishing the death of a rugby league club. I also throw Haven into that statement as rugby league will be a worse place should either or both fail and go under.

As Gutterfax has touched on the fact not all clubs are whiter than white. I have seen goldfish with better memories and recollection of facts than some posters on here. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Don't hold your breath though, brace yourself for a stone fight.