from reading the threads, id say yep.

and certainly their spot in NL1 was questioned.

knocked that on the head now

I'd be surprised if more than a tiny number of knockers said that and I personally didn't notice any.

The majority said they weren't ready and had little chance of making it to the top in a short space of time. There were very very few stating that they would still be able to make a grand final.

People just want there to be swathes of people who wanted Toulouse to fail and predicted there demise after the Widnes game. In reality the majority thought that a 70-0 defeat didn't look good for their chances of being competitive. I thought that they wouldn't be competitive so soon but I saw enough to suggest they would win some games. Widnes scored a lot of tries down one channel and pretty much nothing went right for them that night.

The one lesson to learn from this is how much a good preparation is vital to a RL side.

people were mocking them given that one result and many did also imply they shouldnt be in NL1.

it wont take them long to dominate it, just like CC did.

Quote ="dally messenger"people were mocking them given that one result and many did also imply they shouldnt be in NL1. it wont take them long to dominate it, just like CC did.'" viewtopic.php? ... &start=105 Very few imply they shouldn't be in the league. The biggest criticism aimed at them is that they were under prepared and surely you can't dispute that. The majority had the sensible line that they were dreadful but will get better with practice yet certain people have to focus on the tiny minority as if they were the majority. As for the last line, thats why certain people aren't taken seriously. Instead of it being a good result, in the same way the tiny minority wrote them off after one result your guilty of doing exactly the opposite. A good win at Batley and all of a sudden they will dominate the league.

Quote ="dally messenger"people were mocking them given that one result and many did also imply they shouldnt be in NL1. it wont take them long to dominate it, just like CC did.'" viewtopic.php? ... &start=105 Very few imply they shouldn't be in the league. The biggest criticism aimed at them is that they were under prepared and surely you can't dispute that. The majority had the sensible line that they were dreadful but will get better with practice yet certain people have to focus on the tiny minority as if they were the majority. As for the last line, thats why certain people aren't taken seriously. Instead of it being a good result, in the same way the tiny minority wrote them off after one result your guilty of doing exactly the opposite. A good win at Batley and all of a sudden they will dominate the league.

this isnt aimed at you but what CC went through will be repeated again which is :

1. say they dont deserve to be there, they wont be competitive
2. when they are competitive imply the RFL gives them money, or that the club break the cap.
3. when in SL just look for other ways to make fun of them
4. when succesful in SL claim they were always a fan of their inclusion from the beginning.

Rubbish, Toulouse are a completely different kettle of fish. They have been playing RL for a long time and actually have French players which is one of the main problems with CC. They also represent a large city. If they get into SL they will have done so a lot fairer than CC did (no disrespect meant).

Seeing as though we have all seen their squad and they are allowed few imports there can be little levelled at them for that reason. CC had a player who had played SOO just a few years earlier playing for them in NL2.

I'm not saying people are unanimously going to support them if they win a franchise but if they do it and the RFL don't bend the rules to get them in then they will have a lot of support. For instance they will have had to finish in the top 2 with a largely French squad. Their one home crowd suggests that they will be better supported than CC are too. People aren't dumb they know full well why Toulouse have been put into NL1.

The majority of animosity towards CC came from the fact that they were being fast tracked despite seeming to not be ready. Now they are in there most people hope they do well me included but again I don't know anybody who is making out like they were in favour of them. I certainly wasn't but it doesn't mean I don't want them to do well. Its just too black and white for some people.

Judging by the margin of victory, I'm sure this win won't be their only one this season, but I wouldn't have said this 1 win makes the difference in whether they deserve to be in the league. I mean Leigh still get vilified now for their year in SL and how they should have never been there in the 1st place - no attitudes changes towards them when they won their 1st game.

As I said I'm sure Toulouse will keep improving, but their lack of preparation could cost them a chance to even apply to get in SL. The whole point of being invited into the Championship was to make direct comparisions with English clubs when assessing the licence bids. Unless they can maintain a run of results from now until the end of the season then they simply are not going to get to the GF this year as its very doubtful that they could go to Barrow or Halifax and get the win. So that would leave next season - no GF appearance either this year or next and I wouldn't have even thought they could apply for SL - that is unless the RFL are considering dumping 1 or 2 from SL.

The RFL are not considering anything in that regard at the moment. But in 2011 they may well consider dumping one or more clubs from SL. Especially if one SL club has failed on several SL criteria: is more than a specified number of miles of another SL club (eg. Wakey and Cas); one club has no SL standard stadium remotely in sight (e.g. Wakey); and one club cannot get mandated minimum crowds (eg Wakey).

this wont please people but i dont think that rule on making a grand final should apply to them for obvious reasons.

the problem the RFL has it hasnt said that.

if they were just open it would be easier.

and before you whinge i think widnes should be in next time as well.

Hopefully th TO side will change dramatically with the end of the LER season. Unfortunately the new LER playoff system means that UTC will probably not be involved, which would mean that a number of their players should move to TO for the rest of the season (the whole point of us introducing a feeder club into the Championship) which should improve their results dramatically.

So despite their poor start a string of results could see them in the playoffs.

Personally I'd rather TO stay in the Championship. providing extra interest to that comp while developing into a good Champ side helping the comp's level improve and giving us a pathway for our fringe players to develop.

Personally, I'd rather see TO in Super League, because, as John Monie pointed out, you cannot pick a competent French national side with only one team in Super League. By 2012 Toulouse should have the 25 man squad ready, hopefully with no more than 5 Aussies or Kiwis.

Personally I would like to see TO replaced in the Championship by another French side, preferably Paris -- if not Paris then Lyon -- with competent part timers who should be drawn from the juniors being developed now at Les Catalans and Toulouse, and from the LER player pool.

Thankfully you have no influence whatsoever in RL



Although it would seem that some at the RFL are as barmy as you

It's a pity they can't pick from a pool of players that play in France - in a French competition. I guess the French RU will always put a stop to that.

Will you be joining the Leigh fans down in Toulouse this weekend?
Or are the kind of person who can't take too much pleasure in his life?

If a SL team backed by News International's money couldnt cut it & failed to draw in the crowds, what makes you think that a championship team would be a success?

Yes I will be watching Leigh in Toulouse this weekend and then traveling down to Spain on business for a couple of days

I still think they should not be in our competition though

A waste of much needed funds in my opinion

Because the next business consortium that starts up a Super League club in Paris will have learned the lessons of past failure of Paris-St Germain (PSG), and will be working under totally different circumstances.

First, unlike PSG, the French players will be full time professionals, and will have no obligation to also play for an LER team in the south each week.

Second, unlike PSG, they will have been well prepared for their entry into Super League by three years in the championship

Third, most likely, they will be working in alliance with the Stade Francais rugby union club, sharing the SF stadium, and thereby minimising costs.

Fourth, unlike PSG, they will have the successful experience of Les Cataans and Toulouse to learn from.

Finally, they will be able to learn from the Stade Francais club's highly successful marketing department, and possibly be able to use that department directly.

jeez for someone thats supposed to be a pretend expansionist i still find myself agreeing with albert on many issues.

that is a real worry.

hes spot on about the probs at the last PSG club and why TO should be in SL.

with limited SL spot available for french club i wouldnt want to waste one on paris

toulose will give RL critical mass in france.

after that id like to see lyon and mille in SL eventually

Not now and no.
Nz do fine with only one club in the NRL, obviously the situation is different but it is possible - the French national side has the benefit of being drawn from one club with players who know each other well (as opposed to Saints and Leeds players who refuse to pass to each other).
TO should be in the Championship for 3-6 years at least. This gives a good progression path for Catalan academy players and will help develop the French player pool. Once TO can field a top Championship side with an LER squad as well, then they may be ready for SL - but at this point Catalans will have had to develop to having only 4 etrangers and TO will need a number of promising Championship players.

As for the next Championship club, I think the best option would be to do it properly and select a team like Pia or FCL who would not aim to progress to the SL. For this, though, those clubs would need to be able to extend their player pool to ~ 50 and field a team in both the LER and Championship.

For Paris or Mille they would need to make it to the LER top competition, stay there and make the (new) play-offs - i.e. top 5. THEN maybe they could try one of the Championship comps (it would be great if Championship 1 improved to the point where they could compete with a Foreign club - not holding my breath though) and then look to SL.

Personally I think that by the time Paris would be ready for SL it will probably be time for a French SL.

One of the things about France is that it's not a country of big cities - Mille (second city by some distance ahead of Lyon) has about the same population as Leeds or Sheffield.

If you look at the french rugby union's top 14 competition (rich and able to buy in players from all over the world), most of the teams are based in places which would be considered as small towns if they were in superleague - smaller than Bridgend or Cas.

The idea of a future Paris club using Stade Francais's home ground and thus minimising costs shows a lack of understanding of how French sport normally operates. It's a publically owned multi-use facility with a running track round it, with grass and trees at one end. Gateshead Stadium or Don Valley would be British equivalents. If they have a big game, they just play at one of the other available stadiums - including Charlety, where PSG started off superleague and recently the Stade de France. The mayor of Paris is a prominent supporter of the club and the city council provide a large amount of money and help.

Difference with the UK is that rather than paying rent to the council use the ground, local councils will typically be the main funder of local sports clubs. If you're going to pick spots on the map to place a team in France, the key factor is to find public money to pay for it - Cannes/Nice, Bordeaux, Nimes or any other large Southern City without a currently succesful rugby XV team would make just as much sense as Lyon.

yes and we saw how good the french national side was in the wC

This misses the point of the exercise completely. The reason TO is in the Championship is precisely to prepare them for SL. The RFL has no interest in promoting to the Championship a French club like Pia or FCL which has no chance of ever being a Super League club.

The RFL is not uninterested in Paris becoming a Championship and later a SL club. The only issue for the RFL and the FFRXIII is how to make such a club viable, from a financial, fan and player base foundation. Obviously Paris is the most prestigious and potentially lucrative name in France. That is the reason why M. Larrat is interested in developing the game there. (Whether he has the resources and acumen to make it work is another matter).

The French RU clubs exist from the largesse of wealthy individual sponsors, as well as the government and corporations. These clubs are playthings of their benefactors, just as Chelsea is for Mr Abramovich. The classic example is Toulouges , where Sonny Bill has gone. Rugby league cannot copy that model, because it is still too weak a sport. Such a model will only ever eventuate if and when rugby league ever becomes popular and fashionable among the well to do in France.

Until rugby league becomes a major French pastime -- bigger than handball -- it needs to have another business model. It will have to depend on a combination of public and corporate backing. This can only be big enough to sustain a club in Super League if the city has a large tax base and a large, prosperous business community. Rugby league is struggling financially in Perpignan (pop. 100,000) in competition with RU because there is only a small business community there, no large corporations such as exist in Toulouse. Les Catalans survives because it draws on the broader Catalan community in Languedoc-Roussillon --- and barely at that. This means that Paris, Toulouse, Lyon and Mille are the places the FFRXIII will be looking to develop, not large towns.

The need to build new fans support and junior recruitment structures also argues for larger cities. The small towns that RU are based in, are (except for Paris and Toulouse) entrenched in their sporting ways. There is no room for rugby league in small RU towns, just as there is no room for rugby union in Lezignan or Pia. Only large cities with significant, often unemployed, young immigrant populations can provide the new players to supply a new sport. And only the immigrant cities willl have the surplus fans to follow the boys to the games.

In your opinion. In my opinion TO is there as our feeder club, to act as a bridge for LER players to cross to get to SL. This will also have some benefit for the national side.


The same genius who picked Bobbie G. as the French coach? Ho hum.

Crap coach and a need to fill squad places with experienced players from the lower leagues. Currently a French squad could be selected purely from the Catalan side, with a gap for a fly-half and an injury question over a wing and centre - that can be resolved one way or another. No, not a world beating squad but not bad for 3 years' work.

I think it would be crazy to hope that France would be a proper top 4 national side without their playing any real matches against proper opposition. 2011 4N will be the time to get an idea of their status.