Chase was voted Man of Steel so we know there are flaws to voting systems.

Ellis is quite a bit better than Westwood, IMO. And I've no real reason to be biassed. I'm not saying Westwood is poor, but if Ellis came back, even at 32, I think he'd be one of the top ten players in SL.


edit: 'when', not 'if', innit?

Because Chase was the best player in Super League last season and contributed the most to his team...which is what the award is for



Or are you going to start with your xenophobic ramblings again like you were doing all winter on the Cas board?

Xenophobic? Saying a man who was born in New Zealand, stated he wanted to play for New Zealand, played for New Zealand Maoris and doesn't hold a british passport shouldn't play for England. Did i also mention my wife is mixed race and that my family are from Norway, xenophobic

Ah yes that old chestnut, I can't be a xenophobe because blah blah blah.

Rangi Chase can legally represent England, chose to do so and has stated that he WILL be obtaining a British Passport (which I believe he can do some time this year) but you don't like it because HE TOOK OUR JOOOOB or some crap.

Because you avoided the same question at the time I'll ask you it again, is the Indian-born family that run the local shop not British despite living here for 30+ years, pay tax to the British government and consider themselves to be British not British to you either just because they weren't born here?

In a world where people move all the time, it does not matter where someone was born, but what they can be legally considered as and what the individual feels they are.

That's not the point at all, he can call himself English all he wants, he can integrate and stay here all his life obtain a passport even open up a shop and stay here 30 years, bring all his family over from new Zealand, not a problem.

And because i believe that i'd say i'm not xenophobic.

But i'm on about sport, i'm on about the only thing he has that only very very distantly qualifies him is that he stayed here for 3 years working, how does that qualify him to play for England?

If Ellis had stayed another year would you agree that it would be alright for him to change teams, like Rangi did, put on the Green & Gold and start singing Advance Australia Fair?

Because the rule as it is allows him to do so, if you don't like the rule complain about the rule, not about Chase being included.

In fact, England should have picked Manu & Dobson as well and actually improve the team further.



That would be different, if Ellis had no caps for England then he could have done as he pleases, but he has already played for England so switching to the Aussies would have been a terrible decision on his part and would have made the sport look stupid (again), whereas Chase had never played for a proper international team (the Maoris are NOT the representative side of the country of New Zealand).

I must have been watching the last four weeks with my eyes closed then.. He's far and away the best backrower wire have. Please don't 'insert reputation here' and claim former Kangaroo Waterhouse is either because he's looked ordinary next to westwood.

Like I said it was only my opinion but to me Westwoods better than Ellis and Wire don't need him.

Not being the best back rower Warrington have doesnt mean he couldnt be the best back rower england have! I presume your referring to Trent Waterhouse who if he was English would be a definite in the England team! personally I think Burgess (if he plays there) and Ellis are the best back rowers England have!

Have the rules changed since the ludicrous Tonie Carroll situation a few years ago?

It could also be said that Sir Kevin Sinfield isnt the best 6 Leeds have let alone what England have! But thats another story!

On another point does Rangi Chase still count on the overseas quota cap for Cas despite not having a British passport or is he off it now he has played for England??

he is the best by a mile... you appear to have no clue what you're talking about.

Didn't at Wakefield

Can he play in the NRL? Of course he can.

He absolutely killed it when playing against Souths over here in a trial recently and smashed the living hell out of some of their players. Souths players and officials certainly know who he is.



Is this another case of the english disease "aussies are fab, we couldn't possibly be good enough"?. If it is. We really should find a vaccine for that soon.

Hopefully joining Peter Gentle at Hull...

Bang on. There's plenty of backrowers knocking round SL atm that are easily as good as their NRL counterparts, which is why with the wage Ellis will command, I can't see him signing for either Wire or Wigan, or a couple of the other bigger sides with plenty of options. Hull are a good shout, possibly saints as they could be in that market this year but probably a mid table yorkshire side

Westwood is a great player, no doubt. He would certainly cut the mustard in the NRL, IMO.

However, is there anyone on this thread other than Warrington supporters that think's he is better than Ellis?

I don't think so. However, I have to admit Westwood has looked better at test level than Ellis. Although I don't think Ellis has been 100% fit most of the time he's played for England.

I agree and have said so on the Leeds board. However, Ellis isn't coming to play against the Kangaroos and Kiwis each week. He's coming to play in the Super League.

BTW, I'm not points scoring, I am just genuinely interested if anyone other than Warrington fans hold that opinion.

Possibly not. I suppose for me it's seeing him perform to that level EVERY week, the guy's a freak and I think if there roles were reversed they'd be saying the same thing in the NRL too if he was there. Maybe if I was watching Ellis every game i'd think differently? Quite possibly

I would say that since Ellis has moved to the NRL, Westwood has played the best rugby of his career in superleague, and has arguably been the best backrower for a few seasons now... I do firmly believe that Westwood has looked like the better player in every international match when they have played together over the last 2/3 seasons... i don't think anyone can really argue that point.. can they?

Whilst I agree Westwood has looked better in the Internationals these are 3-4 games at the end of each season.

Westwood has looked very good these last three seasons in Super League, no doubt. But then again, So has Ellis in the NRL. Hasn't he been Wests player of the year each season?

FWIW, I also thought JJB (and perhaps even Wilkin) were back rowers in better form in the last four nations than Ellis. I don't think JJB is a better player than Ellis though, and Wilkin certainly isn't(and I adore JJB and wouldn't swap him for another 2nd rower in the comp, btw).

Besides, none of this was the point I was making, I was just curious if a fan of any club other than Warrington shared the view that Westwood was better than Ellis. So far, they haven't.

I'll be bold and say (as a non Wire fan) that Westwood is the form 2nd rower in SL right now.

That might be because of his team mates bringing him on....but his work rate, skill set and strength have improved dramatically over the last couple of years. He is clearly a leader within their team - you can see him organising the defensive line etc.....plus his penalty count has dropped (was always his weakness).

So is he better than Ellis? Well, it's hard to really say....they play against different teams. You can only really compare them playing against each other.

All I'd say is that as a Broncos fan.......I'd be over the moon if our teams 2nd row was Westwood and Ellis.

It's all about opinions i suppose. If you offered me Ellis in a straight swap for Westwood I wouldn't take it..... I would be surprised if you could find a warrington fan that would... But then again we see him week in week out so we can appreciate what he does for us. I imagine wests fans could well be the same with Ellis.

In other news........Westwood named player of the month in Rugby League World.

Westwood is a top player,
but i reckon most if not all neutrals would go for Ellis given the choice.

Both are welcome back at Wakey.