sounds like win stadium with the wind coming off the sea.

just a few degrees cooler, in fact quite a few!

So just to re-fresh my memory - where are we up to with new stadia? Salford and Saints pretty much all problems resolved and just have to get the things built and Cas and Wakey still no nearer?

Wakefield and the Newmarket development planning application is currently with the SoS (Eric Pickles office) for a Public Inquiry referral decision. The government office asked for the deadline to be extend a couple of weeks ago, as they are allowed to do, and as such a decision is very imminent maybe this week or next but certainly before Christmas. It is felt that given the current noise about making planning decisions a local matter and cutting red tape as well as the case for the development stacking up in terms of Wakefield's LDF and previous legal direction for Wakefield to provide more B8 (distribution) development land on the M62 corridor, it is highly unlikely to get called in for a PI... but it is possible! So, if it does not get called in then (they have said) it will start on site in March, if it does get called in then it is any guess as to time frame but it could hold things up a good year!

Wakefield have said that next year is their last season at Belle Vue and that they will be playing at a temporary home for 2012 which everyone speculates will be Oakwell. If everything goes to plan then that should be only for the first half of 2012, if not could be longer.

Basically, if Wakefield get the news they are hoping in the next couple of weeks then it would appear to be a done deal, contracts will be signed (including with the temporary venue) and work will start on site before the application has to be submitted and, as such, Wakefield can put in their application with Oakwell and Newmarket being their homes for the next franchise period, both of which exceed the Super Leagues minimum standards.

just a minor point: the applications in FatBoy Pickles's office is for outline planning permission – once they get the response to him they still have to submit final permission and have it approved. Nicht wahr?

Have they confirmed this? Heard it mooted a few times though not seen it official, would it be held against them as far as RFL saying grounds must be ready by start of 2012 (bare in mind that's an extension in itself)?

The moving to a temporary ground or that this is their last year at belle vue?



They mention this a few times across press releases etc.

This is true but Wakefield have said that full planning will be applied for almost immediately upon receipt of the OPP.

The developer could and most likely will begin remedial groundworks in lieu of the FPP and may even gamble on starting substantial foundation work given that the signs are positive.

i find that very hard to believe.

Tempory ground, had seen the last season pieces

Chief Executive James Elston confirmed at a supporters meeting two weeks ago that Trinity have plans in place to be playing out of a stadium fit for SL in 2012. He didn’t go as far as confirming where the temporary ground was, but as mentioned before assumptions suggest Oakwell as being the most likely venue.

Where will you play if you dont get a licence for 2012?

To be honest I have no idea, the only thing I know is that is won't be at Belle Vue.

Whether the business plan to play at the temporary ground allows for a demotion I couldn’t say, but one would’ve thought that all possibilities have been looked into.

a wakey fan on another forum told me he expected construction of wakeys new ground to begin in february.

Salford's developers did it. They started remediation in April and the full planning application wasn't going before council until August. Although the I seem to recall that the remediation itself was subject to a seperate planning application that was passed late 2009/early 2010.

If all goes to plan it will start around February/March. If it goes to a public inquiry it won't.

To answer a few questions raised, a reserved matters application (what people are calling a full planning permission, but that is the technically incorrect term as you either apply for Outline or Full planning permission upon first application, if granted outline, you submit a reserved matters application... it is sort of the same thing in many ways though) should be a formality and take no longer than 8 weeks (if they information is ready to go, which it is we understand). Planning applications are judged on the level of information containing within them and Yorkcourt submitted quite a lot of detail on the stadium build in the Outline. The reserved matters will deal with any conditions within the outline and then produce sufficient detail of the stadium build to satisfy the planning officers. The reserved matters application is unlikely to go before committee and just be dealt with under delegated powers by the officer, unless they substantially wish to change the outline design submitted which is doubtful.

As for starting on site, it is perfectly legal and possible (and happens very often on larger developments) to start on site with Outline planning permission because the reserved matters application only deals with the details of the application, so starting site clearance and the muck-shift is a normal state of working. They are always warned that any work under Outline only is at risk, as the reserved matters could lead to works being varied or changed, but very rarely does!

How do you think Castleford and Salford started and completed their site clearance and muck-shift works prior to 'full' planning... under an outline approval is how!

I was going to give a full answer to this but see the above posts from Iain and IA.

All I can say on the Stadium matter is that Salford, Cas and Wakey have had their chances, now it's somebody else's turn to have a crack at the top flight.

Do agree with that the official 2012 - 2015 franchise process for the RFL & Clubs started last week when Championship clubs put in applications for me that would of been the date to cut all others. So be it they may have until June but IMO if no brick is ladi by the time bids go in should be judged on current stadium full stop.

Seeing as Cas fans, perhaps even you have been telling me for years that they have outline planning permission - which they say is all that counts.

I tend to agree, I wouldn't go as far as to say full planning permission is a rubber stamp job. I would suggest that if the plan is not referred then there is very little chance that full planning permission won't be given very quickly. As I suspect you well know. As we appear to have no funding issues then work starting in feb is not impossible.

That said I'd rather not run before we can walk and for now I will remain hopeful.

The last round LSV was built and ready to go, but because Leigh hadn't played any games there, and therefore didn't have the appropriate safety certificate, we couldn't use it as part of the bid and were judged on Hilton Park.

Not only had you not played there, at the time of the franchise assessment you didn't have a legally binding tennancy agreement with the LSV SMC therefore the only ground you could be judged on was Hilton Park.

Not the RFLs fault, look in the direction of the man who did all the moaning and complaining after the decision, Alan Rowley!

You are Richard Lewis and I claim my £5. Suppose those clubs currently building new stadiums (and nowhere near as far down the track as Leigh were at the time of the last 'round') should all be judged on their current stadiums then? Or in Saints case, no stadium at all on that basis?

I wouldn't sign an agreement for something that didn't yet have the correct approvals. But I wasn't blaming anyone, I was just saying what happened last time, and I'm sure the same will apply this time round.