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| Quote ="dally messenger"not only widnes are a better club than wakey, i think fax would be as well'"
I would be inclined to agree. I think Halifax deserve a shot more than Wakefield anyway as they've shown more progression and being ticking the boxes that SL have actually asked for.
To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a 15-team SL, with Widnes and Fax in and Wakey out, and then having the MM Weekend include the WCC so that all teams play.
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| Quote ="Ceejames"out of interest it is Tricky who thinks people should have qualifications. Perhaps you should ask him.'"
You made this post earlier
Quote Do tell me where i have said i am a Wakefield fan criticising the bod ? I have said that the club is a shambles and explained, factually, why I think that is so. I also think they should have the guts to step down for 2012-14. '"
It would suggest that others should come in to run WTW , if so who would you suggest and what qualifications would you suggest they need ?
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"I would be inclined to agree. I think Halifax deserve a shot more than Wakefield anyway as they've shown more progression and being ticking the boxes that SL have actually asked for.
To be honest, =#FF0000I wouldn't mind seeing a 15-team SL, with Widnes and Fax in and Wakey out, and then having the MM Weekend include the WCC so that all teams play.'"
Can you explain how you'd allocate the points won at the MM in this scenario ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"Can you explain how you'd allocate the points won at the MM in this scenario ?'"
im guessing the same as normal. As in a 15 team league every club would need a bye week. the club playing in the WCC would simply have a bye week in the 1st week.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"im guessing the same as normal. As in a 15 team league every club would need a bye week. the club playing in the WCC would simply have a bye week in the 1st week.'"
But the MM games are extra to the home/away structure we already have
An odd number of games doesn't go with an odd number of teams even with a bye
If you were then going to give the SL champions their extra game , who would they play ?
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| you are forgetting that a 15 team league moves to a 28 round season. Rather than the 26 round + MM season we have now.
So MM would cease to be an extra game and be incorporated into the 28 round season.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"you are forgetting that a 15 team league moves to a 28 round season. Rather than the 26 round + MM season we have now.
So MM would cease to be an extra game and be incorporated into the 28 round season.'"
So who loses a home fixture , in fact who loses the biggest home fixture of their season if the stay with the derby matches ? , I cant see W1g4n/Saints, Leeds/Bradford or Hull/Rovers being too keen on that , can you ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"So who loses a home fixture , in fact who loses the biggest home fixture of their season if the stay with the derby matches ? , I cant see W1g4n/Saints, Leeds/Bradford or Hull/Rovers being too keen on that , can you ?'"
i dont know how or what they would do it, i just doubt that they would move to a 29 game year.
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"i dont know how or what they would do it, i just doubt that they would move to a 29 game year.'"
Just wondering , thats all , quite often people post stuff without actually looking at the consequences
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| Quote ="Leaguefan"Dear RL/SL
Please please please demote both wakey and cas so we don't have to put up with 27 pages of sheer claptrap!!'" Dear Admin
Please remove 'Leaguefan' as a poster on these boards becuase he is unable to post anything constructive, Witty or in anyway positive about anything.
If this isnt possible please at least change his Screen-name as he has so far cost me £1,000's in irony meters.
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| Quote ="Starbug"But the MM games are extra to the home/away structure we already have
An odd number of games doesn't go with an odd number of teams even with a bye
If you were then going to give the SL champions their extra game , who would they play ?'"
It's a fair point, but I'm sure they'd find a way. If it went to 15, I doubt they'd do a home-an-away round-robin season. They wouldn't be able to fit in two extra games to the season, and as you say, an odd number of games won't work with an odd number of teams.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Dear God, you're trying hard!
So your ridiculing a poster for saying he knows someone at the club, but you didn't ridicule someone else who said he knows someone at the club? Wow. I wonder why you picked to ridicule one and not the other? Nothing to do with your agenda...
(And did you ever consider that the reply was so quick because it's a rumour that may have already been dismissed many times, and not because he's just got in touch with them to reply to someone on a message board?!)
[I did not ridicule 'merlin'. I complimented him! Do you have a reading difficulty? I wrote: [u"Less than an hour after Tad Rhino posted you have been able to check the veracity of his post with people at the club! Well done."[/u If you think saying well done is a criticism you must occupy a very strange world.
As for "speculation"...
I'm not speculating. It would happen (they would go bust).
[So making a prediction about the future - when you do it - is not speculating? Of course it is. Pretend that your speculation is a cast iron certainty as much as you like, it remains speculation. Which is fine until you complain about someone else doing it.
There is plenty of evidence to support this. If they declared this season a right off from the start and that they were going down the year after, they would go bust. They would get very little income (why would fans bother to come?), and their chairman wouldn't be able to prop them up as (as you have stated numerous times) he is hardly rolling in the money at the moment. It would be a terrible, terrible business decision that would kill them off unless someone else stepped in with a shed load of money like at Widnes.
Now, when you've found evidence that Wakefield have been getting Sky money early then you can use that in your argument and it will be credible. But might I add, if other clubs have done it (which I know has happened in the past), it's not really a very good point to make as they aren't exactly being singled out!
[ When a club requests an advance SL are duty bound to offer it to everyone. The issue is less who has had an advance, rather who has requested it.HTH. How many clubs have had sky money deducted and allocated to other SL clubs? I asked the guy with the contacts about this and no answer came. Do let me know how many SL clubs have faced 2 winding up orders in under 18 months and have a chairman in an IVA
Being ambitious isn't saying you don't think you're good enough for that league, we're stepping back.
[Why must that be so? Organisations do step back, re organise and then move forward
Do you think the fans will "support" them in the wake of this decision? They'd vote with their feet. They'd lose interest.
[Some would walk away. It seems you have a poorer view of wakefield fans than I do. I think the hard core would be enough to keep the club viable
You talk about it being a "wimpish" attitude, but you'd probably do the same if it was your club. Fans are fickle.
[here you can speak for yourself rather than others
It's not an attractive proposition. It's not the message you want to send out to your clients, is it?
[many business clients would understand another business making tough choices, sacrifices and taking alonger term view.
I don't think they'd make it to next season if they came out and told everyone they're focusing on that option. They have to show that they're doing all they can to keep the fans dreams alive, otherwise they won't support them. That's what spectator sports about to most people.
[Most people? Really. there is a lot more to loving your club than that
They should plan for both. You call it wasting resources, but without them ambitions they won't have the same resources to use anyway.
[More speculation?'"
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| Quote ="Ceejames"[I did not ridicule 'merlin'. I complimented him! Do you have a reading difficulty? I wrote: "Less than an hour after Tad Rhino posted you have been able to check the veracity of his post with people at the club! Well done." If you think saying well done is a criticism you must occupy a very strange world.'"
Patronising someone is not complimenting them. If you think it is, then that's possibly why you're struggling socially on here.
Quote ="Ceejames"[So making a prediction about the future - when you do it - is not speculating? Of course it is. Pretend that your speculation is a cast iron certainty as much as you like, it remains speculation. Which is fine until you complain about someone else doing it. '"
It is impossible to make a decision based on the future when you don't know what it is (no matter how certain), fair enough. But it is possible to make a decision based on the past, and to speculate on the past to make a decision (especially with NO evidence) is just an awful argument. And it is. You have no evidence to back up your claim, and you've spent page upon page asking people to prove YOU wrong when it is you that should be trying to prove your speculation right!
Quote ="Ceejames"[ When a club requests an advance SL are duty bound to offer it to everyone. The issue is less who has had an advance, rather who has requested it.HTH. How many clubs have had sky money deducted and allocated to other SL clubs? I asked the guy with the contacts about this and no answer came. Do let me know how many SL clubs have faced 2 winding up orders in under 18 months and have a chairman in an IVA'"
It doesn't help at all. You're not telling us anything we don't know. You're just asking questions that you don't have an answer for but are inferring that the answer to all is Wakefield. It's a poor arguing technique that involves ignoring actually giving any facts and asking questions in a hope that the person you're arguing against also can't answer them so you can claim some sort of upper hand in the argument. I aren't a Wakefield fan. I don't think they should get a license in the next window. I know about the winding up orders and the IVA. But the claim about the Sky money is source-less. Get a source, then it will be credible. Otherwise you're just ruining your argument.
It's up to you to prove that Wakefield have asked for an advance (and the sole club at that). Not me or anyone else. You're the one claiming to be in the know now.
Quote ="Ceejames"
[Why must that be so? Organisations do step back, re organise and then move forward'"
Not whilst selling a product! It would be suicidal.
Quote ="Ceejames"
[Some would walk away. It seems you have a poorer view of wakefield fans than I do. I think the hard core would be enough to keep the club viable'"
Have you not been arguing that Wakefield are struggling to be viable as it is? There is already a small fan base there. And I am not victimising Wakefield fans here. It would be the same at any club. Not every fan is an allegiance to their club. Many only have a small attraction that can easily be broken (hence why SL clubs get more fans than Championship clubs, as most of these attractions are based on ambition, positivity, a higher standard of entertainment, etc.).
Quote ="Ceejames"[here you can speak for yourself rather than others'"
If you do your research, you can generally speak for a lot of people once you understand them.
Quote ="Ceejames"[many business clients would understand another business making tough choices, sacrifices and taking alonger term view.'"
Not if they had a chance to still stay in the league they wouldn't. I think many people would see it as defeatist. Not exactly what you'd want to invest in, is it.
Quote ="Ceejames"
[Most people? Really. there is a lot more to loving your club than that'"
Unfortunately, not everyone loves their club as much as they say they do.
Quote ="Ceejames"[More speculation?'"
Cast iron guarantee. If you believe that a club that openly says they won't be in SL the following season before the current season even starts will get the same income as one that does, then there's no point in arguing with you.
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| Quote ="Roverswall"Dear Admin
Please remove 'Leaguefan' as a poster on these boards becuase he is unable to post anything constructive, Witty or in anyway positive about anything.
If this isnt possible please at least change his Screen-name as he has so far cost me £1,000's in irony meters.'"
Please (AGAIN) do explain!!!
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| Quote ="Roverswall"Dear Admin
Please remove 'Leaguefan' as a poster on these boards becuase he is unable to post anything constructive, Witty or in anyway positive about anything.
If this isnt possible please at least change his Screen-name as he has so far cost me £1,000's in irony meters.'"
get someone to explain the ignore function to you
if someone upsets you that much just put them on ignore then they wont upset you so much!
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| Quote ="dally messenger"get someone to explain the ignore function to you
if someone upsets you that much just put them on ignore then they wont upset you so much!'" Wooosh!
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| Quote ="Leaguefan"Please (AGAIN) do explain!!!'" You're a smart guy i'm sure you can work it out.
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| Quote ="Roverswall"You're a smart guy i'm sure you can work it out.'"
You made the statement.
Explain or prove it!!!!!
This could be good (if it happens )
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| Quote ="Roverswall"Wooosh!'"
stick to making funny sounds lad, its probably your best bet
<kapow>
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Patronising someone is not complimenting them. If you think it is, then that's possibly why you're struggling socially on here.
[No. Saying well done is a compliment. Only in your head is such a thing an insult. Your need to claim it is insulting says much about you.
It is impossible to make a decision based on the future when you don't know what it is (no matter how certain), fair enough.
[Well done. So your assertions about the future are speculative. You are being hypocritical when you criticise me for 'speculating'. I am glad we have sorted that out
But it is possible to make a decision based on the past, and to speculate on the past to make a decision (especially with NO evidence) is just an awful argument. And it is. You have no evidence to back up your claim, and you've spent page upon page asking people to prove YOU wrong when it is you that should be trying to prove your speculation right!
It doesn't help at all. You're not telling us anything we don't know. You're just asking questions that you don't have an answer for but are inferring that the answer to all is Wakefield. It's a poor arguing technique that involves ignoring actually giving any facts and asking questions in a hope that the person you're arguing against also can't answer them so you can claim some sort of upper hand in the argument. I aren't a Wakefield fan. I don't think they should get a license in the next window. I know about the winding up orders and the IVA. But the claim about the Sky money is source-less. Get a source, then it will be credible. Otherwise you're just ruining your argument.
[No argument ruined I am afraid. Hope you now understand the difference between requesting and receiving advances - you can learn things on here
It's up to you to prove that Wakefield have asked for an advance (and the sole club at that). Not me or anyone else. You're the one claiming to be in the know now.
[Is it? Why? If you want to ignore that stuff, do so. On the publicly known stuff - winding up orders etc etc - we know wakey are hardly viable. they sorted 2 winding up orders with transfer fees and a generous donation from Sir Rodney Walker. Both options are unlikely the next time. This psuedo macho 'must apply for a licence' cr*p risks putting the club out of business for good.
Not whilst selling a product! It would be suicidal.
Have you not been arguing that Wakefield are struggling to be viable as it is?
[they will not become more viable by running up more and more debt in SL. Hiring a ground for at least 2012 would have a massive impact on finances
There is already a small fan base there. And I am not victimising Wakefield fans here. It would be the same at any club. Not every fan is an allegiance to their club. Many only have a small attraction that can easily be broken (hence why SL clubs get more fans than Championship clubs, as most of these attractions are based on ambition, positivity, a higher standard of entertainment, etc.).
[it is about the size of the fan base against the running costs of the club. Which option would give the club the best chance of surviving over the next 5 years. You think staying where the debts have grown and the assets have 'all been sold' at a ground with higher costs is the best way to survive...I do not.
If you do your research, you can generally speak for a lot of people once you understand them.
[I doubt that you have done detailed research. If you have, was it published?
Not if they had a chance to still stay in the league they wouldn't. I think many people would see it as defeatist. Not exactly what you'd want to invest in, is it.
[Who is investing atm? Few invest in something teetering on the brink. However managers making toughdecisins and developing an achievable long term strategy may have a chance.
Unfortunately, not everyone loves their club as much as they say they do.
Cast iron guarantee. If you believe that a club that openly says they won't be in SL the following season before the current season even starts will get the same income as one that does, then there's no point in arguing with you.
[I have never said they will get the same income..please show me where I said this, or are you resorting to making up my posts? There are many costs that may become unnecessary if a club is not planning to stay in SL.
'"
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| Quote ="Leaguefan"You made the statement.
Explain or prove it!!!!!
This could be good (if it happens
)'" When was the last time you made a general positive statement about Rugby LEAGUE now bearing in mind that the Cougers are not the be all and end all so im talking about rugby LEAGUE as a whole?
You know what with you being a 'Leaguefan' and all?
Instead you take every chance you can to knock the sport of rugby LEAGUE.
With FANS like you who needs enemies.
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| Quote ="dally messenger"stick to making funny sounds lad, its probably your best bet
<kapow>'" Ok but can someone point you in the direction of the word sarcasm as you dont seem to understand it.
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| Quote ="Roverswall"Ok but can someone point you in the direction of the word sarcasm as you dont seem to understand it.'"
<whoosh>
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| Quote ="dally messenger"<whoosh>'" Clearly.
Ill not continue this conversation as i'll do you the favour of not having you embarrasing yourself again like you did in the 'Super League War' thread.
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