I hardly noticed him to be honest and he didn't have any impact, IMO. If i'm honest, i haven't being very impressed with him for the second half of the season, the first half of the season he showed a great amount of promise though and obviously has plenty of potential but i wasn't impressed with him.

He tackled anything that came near him, and his quick hands allowed the move for the 2nd try to happen.

Just because he wasn't busting through tackles doesn't mean he wasn't there, didn't really see anyone else doing that either.

But Macnamara hasn't got the stones to do it.

Where have you got those stats from? Rooster Boosters link on another thread has these

15. Joel Tomkins 8 5 (26m)
16. Ben Westwood 12 8 (55m)

With first column receives and the second runs. For me it comes down to a straight choice between the two, going with one prop on the bench is suicide against these teams IMO.

Got them from the same link you just click on run after you select player stats.

I'd go with O'loughlin at 6 with Burgess 13, Westwood starting in the SR and Joel on Bench but getting on alot earlier to show what a top player he is. Been impressed with Westwood he seems to suit the international stage.

Quote ="DP_wwrlfc"Got them from the same link you just click on run after you select player stats. I'd go with O'loughlin at 6 with Burgess 13, Westwood starting in the SR and Joel on Bench but getting on alot earlier to show what a top player he is. Been impressed with Westwood he seems to suit the international stage.'" Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html

Quote ="DP_wwrlfc"Got them from the same link you just click on run after you select player stats. I'd go with O'loughlin at 6 with Burgess 13, Westwood starting in the SR and Joel on Bench but getting on alot earlier to show what a top player he is. Been impressed with Westwood he seems to suit the international stage.'" Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html

Quote ="inside_man"Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html'" It is mate click on player stats and then runs. Then look at the Hit-ups column that i quote. I picked out them as the impression i got was the general feeling from most posters was that Westwood drove the ball well whereas Tomkins didnt make an impressive with his.

Quote ="inside_man"Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html'" It is mate click on player stats and then runs. Then look at the Hit-ups column that i quote. I picked out them as the impression i got was the general feeling from most posters was that Westwood drove the ball well whereas Tomkins didnt make an impressive with his.

You've ignored all the other runs that Westwood did to suit your argument then?



Granted I think that Westwood was on the pitch longer, but in reality neither impressed a great deal and it's an either or decision for me. Westwood covers the props better, Tomkins the backs.

I think J. Tomkins is getting some harsh criticism on here, saw him put in one particularly strong run in the second half. in the whole Westwood/J. Tomikns debate, and I'm trying to forget how much I hate the Wolves, you could never criticise Westwood for effort, but Tomkins does seem to have a touch more class and both have all the physical attributes.

When you look at the problems through out the side, neither Tomkins or Westwood were the big issue. England's big issue is their need to re-group mentally. 1st half aside, they weren't that bad. If Brown's try had stood, like it would have if a NZ player had scored an identical try, we could have gone on to win the game.

He had to cover his position and the wing last season. Surrounded by better players he'll dominate.

Absolute rubbish.

As a wire fan I cringed at Atkins performance yesterday, but Widdop was actually worse when he went to centre.

No he wont

Clubb is complete and utter garbage and shouldn't even be talked about playing for England let alone be in the squad.

It would be a brave call to play Clubby at Centre against the Aussies-and that coming from a Quins fan!

I'd go with :

1 S. Tomkins
2 Goulding (Briscoe if Hall is fit)
3 O'Loughlin (Shenton if he is fit)
4 Widdop
5 Briscoe (Hall if he is fit)
6 Brown
7 Robinson

8 Fielden
9 Roby
10 Graham
11 Ellis
12 Westwood (Burgess if Shenton is fit)
13 Burgess (O'Loughlin if Shenton is fit)

14 Lunt
15 J. Tomkins (Westwood if Shenton is fit)
16 Crabtree
17 Griffin

Looked more dangerous with Tomkins at full back and Robinson at scrum half. Thought Widdop was poor at full back but decent at centre alot better than Atkins, keep him there.

I wouldnt keep our two fit centres in the stand. Widdop is an inexperienced full back, to play him in the centres against the Aussies is a recipe for disaster. Ryan Atkins was poor and is capable of playing a lot better and has to be included in the weekends team.

If Tony Clubb does not play in front of moving Widdop or O'Loughlin then he should not have been named in the squad.

Risky in the centres but I think I would go:

S Tomkins
R Atkins
D Goulding
L Cudjoe
T Briscoe
K Brown
L Robinson
J Graham
S Lunt
S Fielden
G Ellis
J Tomkins
S O'Loughlin

J Roby
S Burgess
B Westwood
E Crabtree

Much more oomph off the bench and we need to score points to win the game on Saturday - we won't do that by playing back rowers in the centres (possible exception of J Tomkins).

I like the look of that, but the Atkins, Goulding wing could be very fragile defensivly. The rest of the squad I like though.

Too much hype around Widdop, he's a good player with potential but that's about it. Tomkins would be my preferred fullback with the Hudds pair in the halves.

S.Tomkins ----- S.Tomkins
Briscoe -------- Briscoe
Ellis ----------- Widdop
J.Tomkins ----- Goulding
Goulding ------- Hall/Cudjoe
Widdop -------- Brown
Robinson ------ Robinson
Graham ------- Graham
Lunt ---------- Roby
Fielden -------- Fielden
Westwood ----- Ellis
Burgess ------- Burgess
O'loughlin ----- O'loughlin

Roby ---------- Lunt
Crabtree ------ Crabtree
Griffin --------- Griffin
Harrison ------- J.Tomkins


Team i'd like on left ( Second rowers in centres, both fast enough and will help Widdop and Robinson defensively as they could both be caught out at times. Plenty of pace aswell out wide and Ellis and Tomkins both run better lines than any of the centres in the squad. ) Team i expect is on the right though and for me has far more weaknesses.

Also i think McNamara missed a trick not taking Michael Lawrence, he's great defensively and helps Cudjoe. Whereas Cudjoe has that extra bit of class/magic in attack to make them dangerous as a pairing. That could of been one side of the backs sorted and potentially for years especially with them having understanding of each others games from playing week in week out alongside each other.

the Cudjoe/Lawrence pairing is shaping up to be one of real quality, this tour will have helped Cudjoe and next season I would hope to see both of them in contention for an England shirt as a wing/centre partnership.

I'd pick the same as you mate, but Lunt on the bench instead of Griffin.

Shenton has been injured since that post Jonny. So that would need some adjusting.

Not to mention Goulding playing on both wings.

id personally play widdop stand off as thats apparantly where he is going to be playing next year for melbourne. Kev brown is awful and no where near good enough for this level. if doing drop offs everytime you touched it worked then he would be a world beater! Start luke robinson at scrum half and have tomkins at full back. If we really need to change any of the half backs during the game then oloughlin could fill in there and he will do a better job than brown. carvell in for griffin who should be no where near this squad. tomkins to centre and then bring harrison onto the bench. so my full team would be.....

1.tomkins
2.goulding
3.tomkins
4.o'loughlin
5.briscoe
6.widdop
7.robinson
8.fielden
9.roby
10.graham
11.ellis
12.westwood
13.burgees

14.carvell
15.harrison
16.crabtree
17.lunt