What do you propose TW actually need to add to their squad? Since they've come up (and remember, the narrative for so long has been about how hard it is for promoted clubs to recruit players), they've added three players - one a marquee signing by the very definition of the word, whilst another is a two-time Grand Final winner. What else do you suggest they need to add to a squad that looks competitive with most in Super League?

It seems that on that point, you're just looking for critique for the sake of it - which is why I said in the previous thread that, whilst there are a lot of valid questions of TW, some of the criticism is just rancorous - chippy, snippy and bitter.

Leigh, Widnes and Bradford are where they are because that is where they deserve to be. Widnes and Bradford are financial basketcases. Leigh are owned by a man who made public threats to drag the club under unless a number of players allowed him to renege on contracts that were agreed in good faith. If that's the sort of company that cetain SL chairmen want to keep, all power to them.

The whole argument that the TV would be better with Bradford, Widnes and Leigh in SL seems to be based on this idea that there is a huge amount of latent demand from people who, despite being able to subscribe to Sky Sports, currently don't because those three clubs aren't in it. To suggest that those three clubs could make any difference to Sky's subscriber base to influence a TV deal by any more than relative sofa change is laughable.

The fact I am questioning him is exactly what debate means lol

would that be dr jean-claude romand

The fact you are questioning him simply means you don't agree with him, either that or your just doing your normal thing on here by trying to wind people up, I or anyone else on here have yet to hear you offer any credible opposition to what he says, there are credible posters on here what offer alternative opinions to his, where is yours?, fortunately/unfortunately depending on peoples perception of you have yet to hear anything constructive from you lol

Steph, you and Jean tell me all sorts of lovely things about TWP, Toulouse, Catalans, Ottawa and New York. Where is the evidence for any of that hot air? All we have for New York is a limited merchandise site selling a few T shirts and bob hats off? Once they are gone all the evidence for NY is then hot air from a Huddersfield schoolteacher. Name me the board of directors and the investments they have put in at New York please??

Here's the direct quote from McManus on behalf of Superleague [i"Toronto is a team of English and antipodeans owned by a Australian, They have got to start producing players from Canada" [/i

So there is your direct quote, replied to in the press by McDermott who said they aren't producing any such players. Over to you to look his exact words up which will help you break the habit of making it up. Until you answer this there isn't any point to a debate with you.

I don't do opinions mate, I just look and read up on what the journos report and the clubs say. The journo Dave Woods asked Perez what was the point of TWP what would they bring to the game. That is on record in an interview you can look up on You Tube. Perez said they would add new players and new TV money to the game here. People should look that up and then look up McDermotts recent interviews where he admits TWP haven't achieved a single Canadian pro player or a single cent in TV money.

How clear can the facts be made before the Steph's and Jean's stop telling us Canada is the future?

If Canada is the future why is the Architect of this brave new world sat in the CEO's office at Bradford Bulls?? After all there is sooooo much work to do in Ottawa to get ready to join the leagues here

What's going on here is some people hear only what they want to hear and TBF RL rags provide them with it..........

OK my turn Steph........In three years how many of the pro level North American players TWP were going to produce from grid iron conversions "pretty quickly" are now in the game and how many North American TV dollars have TWP been paid in signed contracts for the rights to show the glamorous TWP?

New TV players and new TV money was promised in return for joining the leagues here. Where is this money? Where are these players now they are in Superleague? Over to you?

The idea you knew more about Marketing than Gary Hetherington was laughable, but anyway that was just half time. 1-0 to me.

1. TWP need to add to their squad the top class college football Athletes they were going to convert "pretty quickly" to Superleague level professionals.

2. SKY is an English TV subscription channel who make nothing from overseas clubs. McManus was clear SKY need an English League for English clubs and subs. In turn SL need English fixtures as they draw bigger crowds....... Hull.v.HKR 23,002 Bradford.v.Leeds 23,373 Wigan.v.Leigh 15,699 etc.....

3-0

Great post and viewpoint Donnyman, saying it how it is. Out of curiosity, who do you support? Let me guess, not Toronto?

Couple of rumours going round our forum that the proposed SKY TV deal isn't going well. Anyone else heard anything? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=539794&start=15870 Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"The offer is I have been led to believe "game changing" in that if it is the only offer available then major structural changes would have to be made within the game. I believe that there is a meeting next week at the club to get views on what changes may have to occur. Elstone has been very quiet of late and I'm wondering if that is because there are no other offers on the table at the moment.'" Quote ="Grimmy"Yes, a big giveaway was a year or so ago during the breakaway. The scenarios offered to the Championship clubs were 'if it stays the same' and 'if it reduces', they didn't even consider an increase option. There's other information I've been privy to which I can't share that indicates a reduction too, but in short yes, definitely expecting a reduced offer. Not sure what I'd do if I were the RFL, and not confident they know either. All very well talking about Amazon, BT etc but it only works if they're interested.'"

Couple of rumours going round our forum that the proposed SKY TV deal isn't going well. Anyone else heard anything? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=539794&start=15870 Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"The offer is I have been led to believe "game changing" in that if it is the only offer available then major structural changes would have to be made within the game. I believe that there is a meeting next week at the club to get views on what changes may have to occur. Elstone has been very quiet of late and I'm wondering if that is because there are no other offers on the table at the moment.'" Quote ="Grimmy"Yes, a big giveaway was a year or so ago during the breakaway. The scenarios offered to the Championship clubs were 'if it stays the same' and 'if it reduces', they didn't even consider an increase option. There's other information I've been privy to which I can't share that indicates a reduction too, but in short yes, definitely expecting a reduced offer. Not sure what I'd do if I were the RFL, and not confident they know either. All very well talking about Amazon, BT etc but it only works if they're interested.'"

My nana told my uncle who told his mate who told her friend who told her doctor who told his golf buddy who told his boss, said boss turned around and said "stop making things up, you look a prize fool"..
it is an endemis thing with Rugby fans in the off season, we speculate about things that, in all honesty, we know nothing about.

The RFL do not control the SL broadcasting rights, move on minnow little league teams.

Rumours on forums don't have half the truth that published articles by RL journalists may have, albeit even then Journo's can be wrong.

I've followed the TV deal story closely after the RFL and the clubs fell out on the last massive deal of £200M which led to the top Superleague bosses (Lenegan, Davey, Moran, Pearson, Hudgell and Koukash) demanding the £200M be spent on Superleague whilst the RFL's Wood and Solly divided it up across the game wasting many £Millions. That fall out saw the RFL decimated and leaving Red Hall for a Portakabin somewhere on Saddleworth moor. SL are now in charge of negotiations so expect the Championship clubs to get nothing.

The main issue here is the massive £200M was paid to secure a quick deal to make sure BT sport (who Lenegan wanted to talk to) didn't pinch Rugby league from SKY. On that basis I don't believe SKY are losing interest at all, only that (and they say this themselves) they won't be paying £200M this time but will pay a fair price. Yes the SKY deal will reduce but that doesn't mean reduced interest from SKY. The likely deal will be lower but enough to subsidise Superleague for several more years to come in another repeat deal that started 24 years ago.

So it may be fair to assume SL clubs will get the same amount of money plus something for inflation, but SKY won't be subsidising Championship clubs this time nor will they subsidise the phoney Canadian club - as simple as that. The deal will be less money then last time but what the 11 SL clubs get will probably NOT be less money than last time. Why would SKY cheapen the product of Superleague? Self defeating. Instead they won't pay that extra they did last time to fight off BT that got wasted on the Championship.

Nail, Hammer & Head

Toulouse is most definitely a Rugby City. The Union side attracts 21k as an average to games in the top 14 and 16k to European Games whilst their soccer team only averages 15k to games.

Unfortunately for you, Toulouse is not a Rugby League city. Their RL side only attracted 2,289 to their home games in 2019, a figure that dips below 2k if you take the inflated gate announced for Toronto, where their Union neighbours were invited to attend for a paltry 5 euros entry. This is a figure smaller than London Broncos average in 2019 and yet The Broncos have more than one Union and one Soccer side to compete with.

I have to say, your sweeping comment regarding London is quite insulting, but you French are often renowned for your ignorance of things you have little understanding of. Virgin are a multi Billion Pound entity who invested in London Rugby League. I believe they qualify as both a corporate and one that has its HQ in London. I believe the clubs primary sponsor, Bartercard also qualifies as a corporate, albeit an Australian one, but you being French may not understand this, as I don't believe that France is one of the 8 countries that the company operates in.

Toulouse Olympique have a main shirt sponsor of an insurance brokerage with fewer than 100 employees and there CEO is an ex-Union Player. Their star player is a cook islander born in Australia, whilst their French players are not good enough for SL, a fact highlighted by them playing for Toulouse and not Catalans. London, on the other hand, earned promotion to SL and were only relegated on the last day of the regular season in 2019, whilst Toulouse lost in the play-offs at home, in front of 1,068 spectators...a disappointing crowd given that their Union neighbours played the day before, whilst their Soccer side were away that day, so there was little else in way of competition to this "game of the season".

Still. You being French does somewhat excuse your ignorance of the facts. Is there not a French version of Wikipedia for you to check before coming across as such?

Where exactly have I said that? If that's your inference, that's your failure, not mine.

You also understand that Hetherington doesn't do the marketing at Leeds, don't you?



OK, so we're still pushing this line without actually addressing the questions I raised. I see where this is going.



Catalans Dragons v Wigan, 31,555



Ah, sorry. There was me thinking we could have a debate like adults. My mistake.

Fantastic attendance at a great event game and hopefully one that is repeated this year to keep up interest. Were you aware that 4 of the starting 13 that day, together with another 3 on the bench were born in France.

Now, to be crystal. In 2006, although the club itself was relatively new, Rugby League in the region was in decent shape (12k to the domestic final) and they had the chance to pick from at least a dozen clubs to nurture and grow the pathway for French players, all with no need to pay transfer fees. They were also exempt from relegation for 3 years to give them a chance to "bed in".

14 years later and they are as reliant on imports as they were in 2006 when they defeated Wigan in front of 11,000 fans except now they don't get 11,000 gates at their home ground.

This thread started with a list of London players and highlighting that the vast majority were London trained. At the end of 2006, London were also "re-born" after nearly going under. At the time, they were a team that had no local players that I can recall, but who had finished in a play-off spot. London now have very little reliance on antipodean players and have started to benefit from the conveyer-belt of talent started back in 2007. French Rugby League on the other hand has gone backwards, with 2k attending their domestic final in 2019.

I'd say that a London side packed with London born and trained players is far better for the game than 30k curious Catalonians at a one off event.

As I say. I hope they return to Barcelona again this year and we see an increase on the gate, but somehow, I can't see it as having been anything more than a one off event like it was in 2009 when Wire played in Spain. 10 years between drinks is a long time for all those Rugby Mad Catalonians.......especially if it is to watch a French side with fewer than 37% French Players.

We can have a debate like adults, I can and do apologise if I upset you.

Hetherington as CEO presides over the various departments including marketing doesn't he? If marketing is poor then he's the one answerable to Caddick.

As for the attendance you quote - see La Grange's reply. I like debates but so many of them are devoid of the basic facts or facts are twisted

.

You make these ridiculous comparisons between attendances for the Toulouse rugby union team and the Toulouse soccer team, versus attendances for the Toulouse rugby league team. These comparisons are irrelevant to future expectations, because Toulouse Olympique rugby league club is not yet playing in a top tier fully professional competition, while the teams from the other two codes already are and have been for decades.

Once Toulouse Olympique is promoted to Super League, one can expect their attendances to skyrocket to a minimum of 6,000, and possibly as high as 10,000. We saw this skyrocketing attendance for the Catalans Dragons, once the club was promoted to Super League.

Bucks Fizz must have had a preminition about Walt

1. THREAD DRIFTED BY THE TROLL AGAIN

2. No.
I work in the realms of fact and statistics.
You are strangely absent from the thread regarding how to assist French RL BTW. You did post 2 references to Wakefield that were stranglely removed and replaced with a singular reference to a "pit village", but you've made no comment on how to help?
It's almost like you're a troll????

Instead, you infect this thread about a local side full of local players and make unfounded and unsupported claims at to what would happen if Toulouse don't bottle it again this year.

To reiterate. 1,100.....less a few dozen, bothered to attend the final play-off game of 2019 in France and fewer than 2,000 bothered with the french domestic final.
I understand with you being French that some things might get lost in translation, but surely, given the precise nature of many of your posts, you have some grasp of the fact that French RL is bu99ered and Toulouse in an English Comp is not the answer...especially when their playmaker is a Cook Island International, born an Australian and still not good enough for the NSW cup!

If you are the expert on all things French RL, please feel free to post in the correct thread and not the one about the progress made in London over the last decade whilst Catalans have gone backwards.

Back on thread.
London's 2nd string, featuring 18 London based players lost recently to Coventry, whilst the First Team Squad with 15 London trained plaers that day fell to Hull FC, by 4 scores to one.
33 Londoners across the 2 squads with the academy as well...that's more cockneys that the French have French players in their international Squad

I am not dreaming.

You deal in facts do you? So please explain: why would the heartless heathen from Lower Hutt feel the need to enter this forum now under another identity?

The requirement of any new team from abroad into Superleague was never attendances.

It was and remains develop SL players and bring in local TV money, That's exactly what Superleague asked of Toulouse when they re-entered the game here with a plan for SL.

It was what was expected of Toronto and it was what Perez promised on behalf of TWP as well.

Catalans attendances are irrelevent, they were supposed to bring in French TV money and nurture the best French players to create a competetive French International side.

All three clubs are sadly - yes sadly - complete and utter failures who cannot be allowed to replace clubs in Superleague who do develop quality pro-players and do get a TV deal.

This is all very simple stuff to understand if people have the goodwill and mental capacity to understand and accept.

All three clubs are total failures failures on the criteria for success - New players and TV money - and would destroy Superleague if they were all allowed in in 2022..........