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| Quote ="JB Down Under"I'm guessing the editor of the Guardian didn't get exposed to League in his education years lol!
was educated at Lanesborough Prep School, Guildford, where he was also a chorister at Christ Church, and Cranleigh School, a boys' independent school in Cranleigh, Surrey. At Magdalene College, Cambridge, he read English Literature.'"
Not surprising, but also irrelivant
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Alas, the viewers tuned into the BBC that weekend didn't agree with you....more of them tuned into Ireland v the AB's. I think you'll find the 6 nations average is 4.5 million a game, so Italy v Ireland is more popular than England RL..... '" Oh for Gods sake, even you don't believe that rubbish. England lost to New Zealand, in a competitive match. The Union game was Ireland. A passing interest in a friendly game from however many people does not equate... Italy v Ireland? Deary me, must try harder, chomp chomp - yawn.
Quote ...the reality is that in the UK......in fact, everywhere other than 1 Australian State, Union is streets ahead in terms of promoting itself and the subsequent public consciousness and awareness.'" One state? Riiight. Even the Aussie Rules trolls would give us 2... OK, I'll give Victoria and WA to the AFL any day, but the idea that Union is ahead of League in ANY state of Australia AT ALL is a joke. Your beloved game is dying here - certainly by the benchmarks you set RL in the UK - and I've really enjoyed watching it since I arrived. Like I said, you can't help yourself on the Black is White stuff like that, which is why nobody even hears the rare valid points you make any more.
At least Dutoni had a sense of humour back in the day mate...
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| Quote ="Starbug"Not surprising, but also irrelivant'"
Very relevant. Believe me, as a lad who moved south at 13 and experienced the institutionalised League hatred in even state Union-playing schools (honestly, you couldn't make some of the crap I saw up) let alone the private ones, this stuff sticks and will take at least another generation to wash out amongst southern-educated professionals, be they journalists, sponsors or whoever of influence.
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| Quote ="Hull Kingston Bronco"Very relevant. Believe me, as a lad who moved south at 13 and experienced the institutionalised League hatred in even state Union-playing schools (honestly, you couldn't make some of the crap I saw up) let alone the private ones, this stuff sticks and will take at least another generation to wash out amongst southern-educated professionals, be they journalists, sponsors or whoever of influence.'"
Seriously
The Guardian will write what its readers want and no amount of whining is going to change that.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Seriously
The Guardian will write what its readers want and no amount of whining is going to change that.'"
Oh, and Nelson, the whites rule South Africa, nothing's going to change that.
And Gorbachev, the Berlin Wall's here to stay too. Nothing's going to change that either.
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| Quote ="Wooden Stand"Oh, and Nelson, the whites rule South Africa, nothing's going to change that.
And Gorbachev, the Berlin Wall's here to stay too. Nothing's going to change that either.'"
It was the majority that changed those things, if you can convince the majority, change away
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| The Guardian lost is way years ago - it now panders to the not too intelligent, trustafarian, public school set. It's a crap paper. I couldn't care less what such an unrepresentative rag feels is important.
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| Quote ="Dally"The Guardian lost is way years ago - it now panders to the not too intelligent, trustafarian, public school set. It's a crap paper. I couldn't care less what such an unrepresentative rag feels is important.'"
spot on ![CLAP eusa_clap.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//eusa_clap.gif) ...let them write what they want, they've only 199,000 readers anyway!
Here's your Guardian readership...
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Seriously
The Guardian will write what its readers want and no amount of whining is going to change that.'"
Again, where did you get your BBC Tv audience stats from?
As for Union being bigger than League, yeh except for:
NSW
Victoria
Qland
NT
Yorkshire
Lancashire
Cheshire
Merseyside
PNG etc etc etc
How are the S15 players coping with their pay cuts this year lol? Has S15 audience managed to get bigger that the NRL's U20's kid games yet? lol
Bring on NRL expansion when we will see RL in WA bury RU again and hopefully another NZ team to build on the RL momentum of recent years in kiwi land.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Seriously
.'"
Whatever matey, it's my life and I lived it. The rugby-playing state school I went to down south even banned "soccer" (as they called it) for Gods sake, you couldn't even bring your own ball in, so imagine the reaction to a lad organising some scratch League games? It wasn't the only school with that attitude. Don't underestimate the ongoing resonance of that sort of behaviour on certain segments of the population, and knock on to how our sport is treated in the media. It's how the real world works.
That's why the greater development of student RL should be a priority for the RFL, we need to get more future influencers on board. Some people's beliefs are more important than others, even if your reductionist viewpoint sees all numbers as equal and all decisions as rationally made.
(I notice you ignored my call out of your nonsense on Australia mind...)
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Again, where did you get your BBC Tv audience stats from?'"
same twitter source that was used during the RLWC....the final was out drawn by Wales v Australia too.....
Quote ="JB Down Under"As for Union being bigger than League, yeh except for:
NSW
Victoria
Qland
NT
Yorkshire
Lancashire
Cheshire
Merseyside
PNG etc etc etc
'"
Both sports are minority sports in
Victoria
NT
Yorkshire
Lancashire
Cheshire
Merseyside
PNG etc etc etc
hope that clears that up for you ![Laughing icon_lol.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_lol.gif) but let's see if Union gets more than 8,000 for its games in the north in 2015...
Quote ="JB Down Under"How are the S15 players coping with their pay cuts this year lol? Has S15 audience managed to get bigger that the NRL's U20's kid games yet? lol '"
How does a UK papers failure to recognise a game between England and New Zealand in its top 10 get to a debate about S15 in Australia? I take it you were ignoring South Africa and New Zealand to suit your agenda by the way....
Quote ="JB Down Under"Bring on NRL expansion when we will see RL in WA bury RU again'" where has RL buried Union in Australia?
Quote ="JB Down Under"and hopefully another NZ team to build on the RL momentum of recent years in kiwi land.'" Yep..we'll fill the Westpac in March but get ignored again in favour of Brisbane 2...
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| Quote ="Hull Kingston Bronco"Whatever matey, it's my life and I lived it. The rugby-playing state school I went to down south even banned "soccer" (as they called it) for Gods sake, you couldn't even bring your own ball in, so imagine the reaction to a lad organising some scratch League games? It wasn't the only school with that attitude. Don't underestimate the ongoing resonance of that sort of behaviour on certain segments of the population, and knock on to how our sport is treated in the media. It's how the real world works.
That's why the greater development of student RL should be a priority for the RFL, we need to get more future influencers on board. Some people's beliefs are more important than others, even if your reductionist viewpoint sees all numbers as equal and all decisions as rationally made.
(I notice you ignored my call out of your nonsense on Australia mind...)'"
all of which is a cool story bro, but has little to do with a daily paper with less than 200k readers, most of whom are middle class aspirant bleeding heart liberals who want to be seen as left wing, not counting a single moment of RL in their annual sports review top 10.
we all know how uber dominant RL is in Australia, yet the RLWC got a cursory mention there.....yet the Guardian gets its own thread here ![CRAZY d040.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//d040.gif)
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| Quote ="gutterfax"all of which is a cool story bro, but has little to do with a daily paper with less than 200k readers, most of whom are middle class aspirant bleeding heart liberals who want to be seen as left wing, not counting a single moment of RL in their annual sports review top 10:'"
It has everything to do with it. The obvious point is that there is an ingrained, institutionalised bias against RL in th UK printed media as a direct result of 100 years of cultural suppression in the places where influencers are developed and influence is wielded. That wil change over time because those issues are no longer in play to the same extent in schools and universities, and as the internet disintermediates media - but as things stand the effects are still there for all to see.
Your reductionist, rationalist view of "papers print what people wan to read" ignores those cultural factors. If that we're true I'd counter with why did Union club games used to get more coverage when watched by one man and his dog and why did Union have a weekly national magazine TV programme on the Beeb which televised the same games? Sometimes supply creates demand, not the other way around.
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| Quote ="Hull Kingston Bronco"It has everything to do with it. The obvious point is that there is an ingrained, institutionalised bias against RL in th UK printed media as a direct result of 100 years of cultural suppression in the places where influencers are developed and influence is wielded. That wil change over time because those issues are no longer in play to the same extent in schools and universities, and as the internet disintermediates media - but as things stand the effects are still there for all to see.
Your reductionist, rationalist view of "papers print what people wan to read" ignores those cultural factors. If that we're true I'd counter with why did Union club games used to get more coverage when watched by one man and his dog and why did Union have a weekly national magazine TV programme on the Beeb which televised the same games? Sometimes supply creates demand, not the other way around.'"
Also, why does he British press regularly give whole page spreads on irrelevant (to Brits) Union fixtures - ie internaionals on the other side of the world no involving a British team? It cannot be demand as Union is a minor sport compared to fooball and I rarely see whole page reports on mega-fixtures such as Brazil v Agentina.
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| Quote ="Dally"Also, why does he British press regularly give whole page spreads on irrelevant (to Brits) Union fixtures - ie internaionals on the other side of the world no involving a British team? It cannot be demand as Union is a minor sport compared to fooball and I rarely see whole page reports on mega-fixtures such as Brazil v Agentina.'"
Define the British press that is giving this coverage? I suspect it isn't the red tops, but instead the self declared QUALITY press which is understandable, given the prevalence of union in the schools and iniversities the readers of these papers.
HK bronco.......Union went openly pro 18 years ago......to what do you attribute the continued growth around the world and now the acceptance of 7s as an Olympic event? I'd hazard a guess it has little to do with the playing fields of Eton. In the same period, RL in the uk has stagnated......is this down to the editorial department at the times?
Both codes could be run better but there can be little doubt as to which one is the dog wagging the tail and which one is rugby league. I'd take the IRB over the IRLF any day of the week.....
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| and the stats on the BBC viewing audiences? still waiting .....
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"and the stats on the BBC viewing audiences? still waiting .....'"
same place as 10 hours ago....pay attention and wait less.
Quote Quote ="JB Down Under"Again, where did you get your BBC Tv audience stats from?'"
same twitter source that was used during the RLWC....the final was out drawn by Wales v Australia too.....'"
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Quote ="gutterfax"How does a UK papers failure to recognise a game between England and New Zealand in its top 10 get to a debate about S15 in Australia? I take it you were ignoring South Africa and New Zealand to suit your agenda by the way....
...'"
Me thinks being a Ru fan living in NZ you should concern yourself with matters closer to home:
Deloitte Sports Review of the 14 semi-professional and amateur rugby unions competing
in New Zealand’s premier provincial rugby competition, the ITM Cup.
Through a financial review of each union’s
annual financial accounts, our findings show that
collectively revenues are falling and accumulated
reserves are being eroded. This, combined with
the well documented difficulties of several
unions, highlights the increasing pressures
placed on those charged with the operational
and financial stewardship of the game.
Financial Performance
There has been a significant decline in revenues over
the previous five financial years, falling by $16 million, or
19%, to $68 million in FY11. Approximately 50% of this
decline occurred in the most recent financial year.
Key revenue streams are sponsorship and grants,
and match related revenues. Other revenues include
transfer fees, event/franchise management, insurance
proceeds and sundry revenue.
The $16 million decline in revenue is primarily related
to lower match related incomes, which has fallen from
$21 million to $9 million over the five years, representing
a drop of 58%.
Income from grants and sponsorship is heavily
reliant on contributions from the NZRU and grants from
gaming operators.
The five provincial unions with professional Super
Rugby based teams generate in excess of 50% of total
revenues although the extent of this has declined from
55% to 51% between FY07 to FY11.
As a consequence of declining revenues, total
expenditures have reduced across the major categories:
team and match related costs, growing the game
and administration expenses. The chart to the right
highlights that the greatest reduction is with team and
match costs, suggesting those in management positions
are consciously reducing match and player costs with
falling revenues.
Collectively, the unions have not generated a
consolidated operating profit in any of the last five years.
Losses range between $0.6 million to almost $7 million,
although the consolidated deficit dropped to its lowest
level in FY11. In total, cumulative operating losses over
this period amount to $16 million.
www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-New ... w_2012.pdf
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Quote ="gutterfax"How does a UK papers failure to recognise a game between England and New Zealand in its top 10 get to a debate about S15 in Australia? I take it you were ignoring South Africa and New Zealand to suit your agenda by the way....
...'"
Me thinks being a Ru fan living in NZ you should concern yourself with matters closer to home:
Deloitte Sports Review of the 14 semi-professional and amateur rugby unions competing
in New Zealand’s premier provincial rugby competition, the ITM Cup.
Through a financial review of each union’s
annual financial accounts, our findings show that
collectively revenues are falling and accumulated
reserves are being eroded. This, combined with
the well documented difficulties of several
unions, highlights the increasing pressures
placed on those charged with the operational
and financial stewardship of the game.
Financial Performance
There has been a significant decline in revenues over
the previous five financial years, falling by $16 million, or
19%, to $68 million in FY11. Approximately 50% of this
decline occurred in the most recent financial year.
Key revenue streams are sponsorship and grants,
and match related revenues. Other revenues include
transfer fees, event/franchise management, insurance
proceeds and sundry revenue.
The $16 million decline in revenue is primarily related
to lower match related incomes, which has fallen from
$21 million to $9 million over the five years, representing
a drop of 58%.
Income from grants and sponsorship is heavily
reliant on contributions from the NZRU and grants from
gaming operators.
The five provincial unions with professional Super
Rugby based teams generate in excess of 50% of total
revenues although the extent of this has declined from
55% to 51% between FY07 to FY11.
As a consequence of declining revenues, total
expenditures have reduced across the major categories:
team and match related costs, growing the game
and administration expenses. The chart to the right
highlights that the greatest reduction is with team and
match costs, suggesting those in management positions
are consciously reducing match and player costs with
falling revenues.
Collectively, the unions have not generated a
consolidated operating profit in any of the last five years.
Losses range between $0.6 million to almost $7 million,
although the consolidated deficit dropped to its lowest
level in FY11. In total, cumulative operating losses over
this period amount to $16 million.
www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-New ... w_2012.pdf
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Me thinks being a Ru fan living in NZ you should concern yourself with matters closer to home:
Deloitte Sports Review of the 14 semi-professional and amateur rugby unions competing
<snip>'"
wow..things were glum in 2012....but getting better in 2013.
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/nzru-posts-first-operating-profit-in-five-years-5382952[/url
Meanwhile, I attended the NZRL grand final in Auckland last October....less than 1,000 people watched and that included all the friends and families of the playing squads of both the U17's and the Premiers whilst the NZ Warriors saw their home crowds average at Mt Smart was 13,152 DOWN from 15,257 the previous year....no wonder they're taking 4 games on the road this year.
Given the Warriors are the only pro RL team we have, surely they would average more than the Blues but hey...you know the answer to that too...don't you ![SUBMISSION c020.gif](//www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//c020.gif)
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| A twitter source? That's it? That's your reference?
Back to union with you troll.
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| Seems Rugby (sic) is on the nose across NZ
The Crusaders continue to be one of the most popular teams in Super Rugby despite a season of mixed results and decreasing crowd numbers at home.
The seven-time championship winning side have drawn an average crowd size of 14,600 to AMI Stadium this year, a decrease from 17,300 last season but still enough to have them second only to the Auckland-based Blues for New Zealand sides.
Things aren't so rosy for the Hurricanes however with an average of 11,200 at Westpac Stadium.
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"A twitter source? That's it? That's your reference?
Back to union with you troll.'"
It's the same twitter feed that the RLWC organisers quoted in their "wasn't it great" press release. As for me being a union troll, the amount of information you are posting regarding the slower but bigger and more popular code is quite alarming......is there something you'd like to share with us?
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Seems Rugby (sic) is on the nose across NZ
The Crusaders continue to be one of the most popular teams in Super Rugby despite a season of mixed results and decreasing crowd numbers at home.
The seven-time championship winning side have drawn an average crowd size of 14,600 to AMI Stadium this year, a decrease from 17,300 last season but still enough to have them second only to the Auckland-based Blues for New Zealand sides.
Things aren't so rosy for the Hurricanes however with an average of 11,200 at Westpac Stadium.'"
If you're going to fish, at least use accurate bait.
Crusaders 15,084 in 2013, Blues 20,953, Chiefs 14,280, Highlanders 13,096 and Hurricanes 10,850. Crowds down on 2012 at an average of 14,853 from 15,120....just shy of 2% at 1.8%.....not terrible compared to the 2.9% drop across the pond in the NRL for the same season.
Go on, let's have some more doom and gloom in regards to the slower, but bigger and more popular code.
Hmmm...$4,000,000 for one game.
[urlhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7933904/NZRU-brings-back-big-bucks-from-Twickenham[/url
or $2,500,000 in prizes, including a first prize which is more than the cash on offer for winning the NRL?
[urlhttp://www.aucklandnz.com/events/featured/nrl-nines[/url
This comparison thingy isn't really working out for you is it JB?
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| The VT really has become unbearable. Well done Gutterfax and friends.
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