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| Quote ="Towns88"Radford in his interview stating Rob Hicks got it wrong at Wembley with the Tony club no try. Poor old Robert Hicks had no involvement with the officiating in the challenge cup final
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He tried to use that as a deflecting tool upfront so he could say that Hicks got the Watts decision incorrect, in the later local radio interview he was corrected by the interviewer and then followed to say that decisions go both ways that can still be both wrong.
That he got it wring over Hicks as the VR is kind of niether here nor there.
Of the two decisions the Watts one is an absolute shocker, completely wrong.
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| I would actually assume the call of the raised elbow came from the touch judge.
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| In the vast majority of tackles, the tackler will come into contact with the elbow of the carrier. It's almost impossible not to. For the very rare penalty of a tackler leading with the elbow, it is always raised to above shoulder height and deliberately delivered into the head or neck of a standing opponent. I have never, in 30+ years of watching, playing and refereeing rugby league, seen a player penalised because a tackler's head comes into contact with the carrier's arm in such an instance. To do that consistently would make the game unplayable.
In the same way, headbutts are illegal and a dismissal offence. Yet heads come into contact in a huge proportion of tackles. Context, intent and positioning are everything.
It was a mad decision, which was made by a referee who is clearly not yet ready for the pressure of this level of rugby.
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| Quote ="Roy Haggerty"In the same way, headbutts are illegal and a dismissal offence'"
You would think that, but the Rob Burrow incident last week makes a mockery of that!
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| Quote ="Roy Haggerty"In the vast majority of tackles, the tackler will come into contact with the elbow of the carrier. It's almost impossible not to. For the very rare penalty of a tackler leading with the elbow, it is always raised to above shoulder height and deliberately delivered into the head or neck of a standing opponent. I have never, in 30+ years of watching, playing and refereeing rugby league, seen a player penalised because a tackler's head comes into contact with the carrier's arm in such an instance. To do that consistently would make the game unplayable.
In the same way, headbutts are illegal and a dismissal offence. Yet heads come into contact in a huge proportion of tackles. Context, intent and positioning are everything.
It was a mad decision, which was made by a referee who is clearly not yet ready for the pressure of this level of rugby.'"
He swaps the ball to his other hand knowing what's coming. He raises his elbow and leads with it. He knew what he was doing,or wouldn't have swapped hands.
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| Quote ="atomic"He swaps the ball to his other hand knowing what's coming. He raises his elbow and leads with it. He knew what he was doing,or wouldn't have swapped hands.'"
As I've just posted on the Hull forum, he doesn't switch hands. The ball is never under his left arm. He catches the ball with 2 hands and places it immediately under his right arm. He's never going to drive in holding the ball out in front of him eith 2 hands, and putting it under his left would give more chance of McIlorum forcing an error should he hit under the ball with good impact.
The ball switching argument is a load of rubbish. His right hand literally never leaves the ball.
There's a slow motion video on Twitter for anybody who needs a replay to see this.
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| Every current player and ex player on Twitter saying it isn't a red card. Scott Taylor explains what Watts is doing to shield the ball at the screen with Wells. Never a red, poor technique from mcillorum who has led with his head in the wrong position.
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| Quote ="Hasbag"Hardly bottled it. To even get back into that game was an outstanding effort.'"
Wigan let you back in, should have been a cricket score..
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| Should not have been a penalty let alone a red card.
You can generally tell it's a nasty one as the opposition players will dish out some retribution. O'loughlin and Clubb closest to Watts with no sign of any aggression towards Watts.
The ref has reacted as McLorrum got hurt.
Oh, then there is the clear forward pass for Wigans 3rd!
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| Quote ="atomic":1p3q7onpHe swaps the ball to his other hand knowing what's coming. He raises his elbow and leads with it. He knew what he was doing,or wouldn't have swapped hands.'" tackler.
You never, ever penalise a player just because a tackler who has launched himself at a man's midriff gets his head in the wrong position and makes contact with an arm. You'd have to be mad to do so. Or Robert Hicks.
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| Quote ="Roy Haggerty"This isn't true. He simply carried the ball under his right arm, and uses his left arm as a fend, as every player going into every tackle does when carrying the ball the same way. It's essentially impossible not to - just try running at something hard and see if you can do so without your arm coming up automatically. That's why we only ever penalise leading with the forearm when the forearm is deliberately raised to head height to contact with the oncoming [standing tackler.
You never, ever penalise a player just because a tackler who has launched himself at a man's midriff gets his head in the wrong position and makes contact with an arm. You'd have to be mad to do so. Or Robert Hicks.'"
Some people need to play the game to understand what natural positions you get yourself into when taking the ball in and defending. Watts body position and fend all correct, Mcillorum technique is all wrong in order to put a shot on
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| On a different note, I must say I haven't enjoyed a game like that as a neutral for a long, long time. Thought the boiling/simmering aspect of it really added to the spectacle and complimented the nicer, ball in hand highlights. Well done to both teams and reminded me why I fell in love with rugby league.
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| Quote ="Roy Haggerty"This isn't true. He simply carried the ball under his right arm, and uses his left arm as a fend, as every player going into every tackle does when carrying the ball the same way. It's essentially impossible not to - just try running at something hard and see if you can do so without your arm coming up automatically. That's why we only ever penalise leading with the forearm when the forearm is deliberately raised to head height to contact with the oncoming [standing tackler.
You never, ever penalise a player just because a tackler who has launched himself at a man's midriff gets his head in the wrong position and makes contact with an arm. You'd have to be mad to do so. Or Robert Hicks.'"
[url=https://ibb.co/nF7rta [/url
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| Quote ="Roy Haggerty"This isn't true. He simply carried the ball under his right arm, and uses his left arm as a fend, as every player going into every tackle does when carrying the ball the same way. It's essentially impossible not to - just try running at something hard and see if you can do so without your arm coming up automatically. That's why we only ever penalise leading with the forearm when the forearm is deliberately raised to head height to contact with the oncoming [standing tackler.
You never, ever penalise a player just because a tackler who has launched himself at a man's midriff gets his head in the wrong position and makes contact with an arm. You'd have to be mad to do so. Or Robert Hicks.'"
Well he manages to put the whole arm out after that and palms the next tackler. Your first instinct without the ball in that hand is to palm, not raise the elbow. We'll see what the review panel think of it.
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| As a Wigan fan I have to say it was a very harsh red card. I think if McClorrum had not been flat out the ref wouldn't have batted an eyelid. Trying to look at it pragmatically, though I personally disagree with the decision Watts' elbow was being raised (albeit slightly) and made direct contact with the head. I don't believe there was any malace in it but can understand where the decision came from.
One point I want to make is to give a huge amount of credit to Scott Taylor, what Sky did to him, asking those questions straight after the game was wrong and potentially putting him in a position where he says something that ends up with him being banned. I like the touch screen analysis but leave it to a player from the winning team.
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"He tried to use that as a deflecting tool upfront so he could say that Hicks got the Watts decision incorrect, in the later local radio interview he was corrected by the interviewer and then followed to say that decisions go both ways that can still be both wrong.
That he got it wring over Hicks as the VR is kind of niether here nor there.
Of the two decisions the Watts one is an absolute shocker, completely wrong.'"
Suck it up. Why when Hull lose is it always the refs fault?I don't think anyone is saying Watts meant it but in current rules elbow into head equals red. Hopefully he will get most lenient ban for that offense same as Ellis other week . Was a good game and 2 week in a row Fc have played well but lost .Still in own hands and Thursday will be good telly
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"https://twitter.com/RLBP_/status/869284742306430977
Watts sent off against cats, josh griffin on end of same tonight, penalty only.
The game is bent'"
Stop getting your knickers in a froth. You can trawl old games and find hundred of instances of similar incidents that don't get pinged, controversial decisions went your way at Wembley and I don't recall Wigan fans having this level of hysteria?What part of elbow to the head don't you understand?
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| Watts did have his elbow slightly raised, which made contact and knocked McClorrum out, that description is clearly foul play.
What makes it contentious as well as McClorrum flying into the tackle like a madman, is that players too often are running with a raised elbow without giving penalties away. Putting the bumpers up is how Terry O'Connor described it. Running into tackles with your elbows is foul play, whether contact with the head is made or not, a fend should be with the hand not the elbow.
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| Just watched it again and can't see how it's anything but a red? But after reading umpteen pages of belly aching on hull board most seem to think it was perfectly fine? The disciplinary boards ruling will be interesting either way
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| If this had been the other way around, Hull fans would have been screaming for a red card... #JustSaying
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| Quote ="Wigan Peer"If this had been the other way around, Hull fans would have been screaming for a red card... #JustSaying'"
Very true. Every time Hull lose the ref is to blame.
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