William Marshal Mason. Born 1980 Auckland New Zealand
Raised in NSW.
Has played State of Origin...although he isn't from either NSW or Q'land
Has Played RL for Australia...although he isn't from Australia
Has Played RL for Tonga...although he isn't from Tonga

Interestingly, Tonga was the only pacific Island not colonised by the British......so there is no commonwealth tie in.......even if he were Tongan!

Please explain, how a guy born in New Zealand who has played international RL for 2 countries (so far) and SOO for a state he wasn't from doesn't count as an overseas player?
He was trained in NSW........he was signed at 19yrs of age by the dogs.....he has learnt his trade in the NRL......and yet he doesn't count as overseas....only in ENGLISH Rugby League would this happen or would anyone try to defend it

only in English RL? Didn't Australia pick him for SOO and Kanagaroos and Tonga for their national side? Seems rules on eligibility are "flexible" all over the world of RL!

Only in English RL would someone with that Biography NOT be counted as overseas..........PAY ATTENTION AT THE BACK

As I was trying to get across in my post, it's not 'the 5', but a maximum of 5 quota players and a maximum of 5 non-fed players. If you ignore the exemptions that are currently in place for certain players, this means that effectively there is a flat limit of five overseas players (quota or non-fed) in place, as quota players are also non-fed players (So if my club signs five quota players it has also signed five non-fed players, and is maxed out on both fronts. On the other hand, if it signs five non-fed players, it has no quota players, but couldn't go and sign one, because that player would also count as a non-fed, and would take the club over the limit for non-fed players). So if the system was working as it was designed to, then Hull KR would basically be restricted to 5 overseas players, wherever they had come from.

The exemptions make a mess of the whole thing though. Say my club has 5 quota players who have been at the club since 2006. They [ishould[/i count as quota [iand[/i non-fed, but, because of exemptions, only count as quota. That means that I can, if I want, go out and sign another five non-fed players with EU passports without breaking my limit of quota players or non-fed players. To make matters worse, if I have Non-fed, EU passport holding players who have been at the club for years, they count as neither quota nor non-fed. So I could, in theory, get away with having 11, 12 or more overseas players.

So what I'm trying to say is that, because of these exemptions, it isn't a matter of 'the 5'. HKR have clearly managed to juggle the status of their overseas players (using exemptions and impromptu EU/Kolpak passports) in such a way that very few of their players count as [iboth[/i quota [iand[/i non-fed, and some of them count as neither. As such, they have managed to squeeze plenty of non-British players into their squad. In theory, once all the pre-2008 players have retired, this will no longer be possible.

My guess is they've done it like this:

Quota:
Vella (exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Clinton (signed after 2008, so counts as both quota and non-fed)
Newton (exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Green (As Clinton)
Dobson (As Clinton and Green)

Non-Fed:
Mason (exempt from quota after buying Tongan PM a pint)
Clinton
Green
Dobson

Neither:
Fisher (exempt from quota as qualifies for EU through residency? Exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Galea (exempt from quota due to shiny new Maltese passport. Exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Webster (exempt from quota due to Islander passport? Exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Lovegrove (apparently exempt from quota - he has played for Scotland, which might have something to do with it. Exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif

If I'm right then they could actually squeeze another non-fed in there.

No not currently we can't due to Galea hitting red tape with his Maltese passport. Had he got his passport the club may well have not asked Mason to go to Tonga meaning he could have just applied for his Aus Visa and got here before Christmas as was previously expected to happen by Mason and his agent.

Lovegrove has never played for Scotland either. He arrived mid 2007 as a 20yr old, however the rules then stated that you had to have played reserve and first grade for the English club for at least one year but due to the rules changing after he had played half a season as a 20yr old the RFL gave him 'special' dispensation. His mother is English too so qualifies to play for England, Australia and as he has a Scottish grandparent he can play for them too if he so wishes.

and of course being born in NZ and playing for Tongan made him a through and through New South Welshman?

Not that it's relevant to anything but Gutterfax is wrong to say that Tonga was the only Pacific island not colonised by the British and that there is no Commonwealth connection. To mention only two island groups Hawaiii and Tahiti were never colonised by the British either. Strictly, Tonga was never a British colony but very few other Pacific Islands were either. Tonga became a British Protectorate (like many other island groups) in 1900 and joined the Commonwealth as an independent nation in 1970.

Gutterfax in "wrong" shocker.

There's a first, second, third........etc

Really not ar$ed anymore Gutterfax (or Codhead for that matter). I see it like this:

1999:

Hull KR were in administration and playing in the (now) NL1, averaging 2000 fans

Fulcrubronquins Experiment were a competitive Super League side who reached the Challenge Cup Final at Wembley (though for the record, they failed to sell out their ticket allocation for the biggest game in their history, in their own city

). They were however (IIRC) averaging at least 4000 fans for home games.


2010

Hull KR are not in administration, and are a competitive Super League club, reaching the play-offs in their 4th SL season, and have averaged a minimum 7000 fans during each of their SL seasons so far.

Fulcrubronquins Experiment are a struggling Super League club (in terms of league position), and average 2500-3000 fans.


I know which club/experiment has progressed more over the last 12 years, and it isn't Fulcrubronquins Experiment.





Like I said before Gutterfax, all those young London players have received their opportunity because Fulcrubronquins Experiment do not have the resources of other (successful and real) clubs, if you did you would still be the team of 17 Aussies that you were when (wrongly) fast-tracked to SL in '96.

are you sure about hawaii ?
the british union flag is incorporated into the hawaiian national flag.

Cheating your way to Wembley with a non-registered player , must have also been absolute torture

Then why post?

In response:
1999:
HKR in lower league with a squad of English players. Fulhamcrusaderbroncoquins in SL and the CC final with a team full of aussies.
2010
Fulhamcrusaderbroncoquins STILL in SL but now with with a squad full of English players. HRA in SL with a team full of aussies (note the absence of a mention of the CC final)

Now, given the RFL's rules on player development, stadiums, overseas quotas etc.....I know which club is making moves in the right direction....and it ain't the one from east hull

I don't think that is right. Vella and Newton surely can't count on the quota if they have EU passports. Having an EU passport is what gets you "off quota".

Just looking at the RFL statement, it says that the following players are quota players:
Ben Galea, Blake Green, Michael Dobson, Joel Clinton and Jake Webster.

"RFL said Mason was not able to be classed as a quota player due to the 'Cotonou Agreement'."

If they are the five quota players, then your list may be like this (using your interpretation of the confusing RFL rules):
Quota:
Clinton (signed after 2008, so counts as both quota and non-fed)
Green (As Clinton)
Dobson (As Clinton and Green)
Webster
Galea

Non-Fed:
Mason (exempt from quota after buying Tongan PM a pint)
Clinton
Green
Dobson
Webster
Galea

Neither:
Fisher (exempt from quota as qualifies for EU through residency? Exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Lovegrove (apparently exempt from quota - he has played for Scotland, which might have something to do with it. Exempt from non-fed as signed pre-200icon_cool.gif
Vella
Newton

I don't get how you can be on the quota but federation trained. Surely if you are an Australian that is trained in this federation, it gets you off the quota? (And, do any of the Hull KR players come under this anyway?).

The RFL statement has explained nothing really! In fact, it's only led to more confusion. I'm beginning to be concerned that they may not even understand their own system!?

I stand corrected. Thank you JS.......





Don't pat a strange dog Bertie.....you never know if you'll get bitten.

I see you are an East Hullian. Would your pi55 poor attempt at trying to look clever have something to do with the now often used name, Hull Kingston Australians perhaps? It's not my fault that a fair number of posters on here adopted it to use when discussing your overseas players.

Given most of your time is spent trying to and failing to wind up fans of the bigger and more succesfully run Hull club, I suspect you felt that by jumping on a geographical history post, you'd try to look clever.......well guess what? You failed.....miserably.
Unless you'd like to list the other "wrong" posts that you can attribute to me. There are over 10,000 posts to search through and I have no doUbt there are a few incorrect assumptions scattered amongst them, but in the main, I generally think before I type.......something you should do.
If you need help with your search, ask dally messenger......he's always on the look out for new chums

Since when have the RFL ever understood their own rules ?

Vella - Maltese
Mason - New Zealander
Lovegrove - English
Fisher - Scottish
Newton - American
Webster - New Zealander

This Hull Kingston Australians name really is poor considering we only have 4 Australians playing in our team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (And if Galea gets his Maltese passport it'll be only 3!)

yeah, good argument, people will definitely fall for that.

Some people fall for Jordan James and Anthony Blackwood being Welsh , let alone Eistin Harris , Chris. Morley and Kieron Cunningham , Mick Nannyn and John Duffy being Scottish

Yeah, cos thats the same aswell.

It is , but I don't recall you criticizing anybody about it

It clearly isnt. Those players came through this system they are entitled to seek work in it. If they then go on to choose any one of the four countrys which make up this single sovereign nation then that is fine. If they choose to move to and play for a club in the home nation they have chosen that is a positive thing. It would be silly to argue otherwise.

The other players were born and raised in Australia or New Zealand and have Australian/NZ passports, they arent products or representatives of our system. They are actually and factually NZ/Australian citizens and Passport holders.

If you want to pretend Wales and Scotland arent part of the United Kingdom that would be up to you. It would be no more ridiculous than many of your trolls.

Lighten up Smokey, it's a sport, you're a fan just enjoy watching the game leave the worrying to those who get paid for it!

By been a Rhinos fan he's presumably a fan of Kevin Sinfield. Therefore he's learned from the best when it comes to b1tching and moaning constantly.





Put that gumshield back in you tw*t!

Possibly the stupidest post I've ever seen


Apparently getting an additional passport no longer makes you from the previous country you hold a passport for



I'll give you a hand...
Rhys Lovegrove - born Sydney, NSW
Ben Fisher - born Sydney, NSW
Clint Newton - Australian parents (born in USA whilst his golfer Dad was on tour)
Ben Galea - born Parramatta, NSW
Mick Vella - not sure where he was born, but was a production of the Aistralian system and has represented Australia
Willie Mason - Grew up in Toronto, NSW and has represented Australia
Michael Dobson - born Junee, NSW
Blake Green - born Sydney, NSW
Joel Clinton - born Riverstone, NSW
Jake Webster - born Melbourne, VIC

All your imports are Aussies

Have to say I agree it is a bit silly.