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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Let's deal with your points:
The game needs to increase participation that can be done in two main ways: An elite competition that inspires kids to want to play the game e.g. Premier League soccer or through grass roots clubs that give kids an outlet to try the game under appropriate supervision/coaching. Both of these areas of the game need investment. One brings the money in and the other provides the players to ultimately bring the money in.
What I am saying is very few players go to SL from Wath Brow via the Championship - the lack of numbers means there are a miniscule amount of late developers who actually make it at elite level and exceptions should never be the basis for your strategy.
My view is we need a 14 team SL each supporting a championship/feeder club - the 14 teams need to be strategically selected and have a 10 year franchise - no promotion/relegation but strict guidelines around the interaction with the feeder clubs and the amateur/grass roots clubs in their area.
I fail to see how taking funds from the SL clubs and giving it to Dewsbury/Keighley/Hunslet/Swinton/Oldham etc is going to enhance either participation or profile. Their core fans aren't interested in going along to watch them - what's the point?
All everyone wants is high quality entertainment - that will not happen by squandering money so the championship clubs can pay over-the-hill players more money because that is all that will happen with any additional funding.'"
I fully understand the sentiment in your post, however, if you cut out the 2nd and 3rd tier of the sport and rely on club academies to prepare players for SL, you will kill the sport, you would also massively alienate the fans who do attend those games and whilst some may drift towards their nearest SL club, the majority of them would be lost to the game and probably their kids and grand kids as well.
We need the whole RL pyramid to be as strong as possible, all the way through the amateur game, right up to SL and International level.
If you take out one or 2 levels you would kill the game.
Yes, there are ageing players in The Championship and League 1 BUT, there are also young kids learning their trade.
Many SL sides have players on dual reg at Championship and League 1 sides. Should they sit in the stands and vegetate or maybe just chuck them on the scrapheap if they haven't made the grade at a particular point in time.
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| Quote ="Joff"Workington and Whitehaven surely?
Castleford and Wakefield surely?
Leigh and Warrington surely?'"
Castleford and Wakefield even as a Wakefield fan, has always made sense to me. Along with Fev thrown in there, crowds would increase and the three would be better off financially. I could only consider them being called Wakefield though.
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| Quote ="WakeyTrin1873"Castleford and Wakefield even as a Wakefield fan, has always made sense to me. Along with Fev thrown in there, crowds would increase and the three would be better off financially. I could only consider them being called Wakefield though.'"
What's the point in merging only to keep the name wakey?
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| Quote ="EastHullUTR"What's the point in merging only to keep the name wakey?
'"
All three in the Metropolitan District of Wakefield.
Three = a Trinity
= Wakefield Trinity.
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| Quote ="Miro"All three in the Metropolitan District of Wakefield.
Three = a Trinity
= Wakefield Trinity.'"
Wakefordstone.
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| Quote ="WakeyTrin1873"Bigger crowds and to be better off financially, I don't see how it's so hard to get your head round considering both Castleford and Featherstone are towns within Wakefield?'"
What would be in it for Cas?
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| Quote ="Kippaxer"What would be in it for Cas?'"
The same thing that would be in it for Wakefield and Featherstone. Bigger crowds and to be better off financially.
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| Quote ="Kippaxer"What would be in it for Cas?'"
The novelty of seeing the wakey ground full of home fans ???
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| Quote ="WakeyTrin1873"The same thing that would be in it for Wakefield and Featherstone. Bigger crowds and to be better off financially.'"
Quite clearly you are not right in the head.
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| Quote ="WakeyTrin1873"The same thing that would be in it for Wakefield and Featherstone. Bigger crowds and to be better off financially.'"
Cas do ok, competent on.the field, make a profit, use the full salary cap, average 8k+.
There's absolutely nothing for Cas to gain by merging with a club who are inferior in all departments.
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| Quote ="Kippaxer"Cas do ok, competent on.the field, make a profit, use the full salary cap, average 8k+.
There's absolutely nothing for Cas to gain by merging with a club who are inferior in all departments.'"
There’s nothing in it for Fev merging with wakey, let alone Cas
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"I fully understand the sentiment in your post, however, if you cut out the 2nd and 3rd tier of the sport and rely on club academies to prepare players for SL, you will kill the sport, you would also massively alienate the fans who do attend those games and whilst some may drift towards their nearest SL club, the majority of them would be lost to the game and probably their kids and grand kids as well.
We need the whole RL pyramid to be as strong as possible, all the way through the amateur game, right up to SL and International level.
If you take out one or 2 levels you would kill the game.
Yes, there are ageing players in The Championship and League 1 BUT, there are also young kids learning their trade.
Many SL sides have players on dual reg at Championship and League 1 sides. Should they sit in the stands and vegetate or maybe just chuck them on the scrapheap if they haven't made the grade at a particular point in time.'"
"The meaning and outcome of communication is in the response you get" suggests I have not explained myself.
I am not saying get rid of layers 2/3 I am saying link them to a SL club. This way we have 14 SL clubs and 14 feeder clubs not dissimilar to the NRL version. All these players that don't make the grade or are too old to make the grade anymore will have a place to play at a competitive level.
Halifax are a Championship club that everyone applauds because they have reserve grade - but if you look at their starting 17 not one has come through the academy system so why should these clubs get more funding to simply employ players developed by other SL clubs - players such as Scott Murrell, Ben Johnston, Will Maher, Simon Grix, Steve Tyrer etc. etc.
If we alienated all the fans from the Championship - which wouldn't happen as I would include Bradford, London, Toulouse and Toronto/Cumbria in the SL - how many fans are you actually going to lose - 300 at Hunslet, 500 at Keighley, 400 at Swinton etc 10-15k at the most and not all these would simply stop attending.
For me history is a anchor not a springboard for RL.
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| Quote ="Kippaxer"Cas do ok, competent on.the field, make a profit, use the full salary cap, average 8k+.
There's absolutely nothing for Cas to gain by merging with a club who are inferior in all departments.'"
"Make a profit" ??
Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago.
Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ?
Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit".
Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s)
The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.
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| Quote ="Chris.Taylor"Absolutely, can I suggest Huddersfield and Sheffield and of course Hull FC and Newcastle.'"
Hull FC & Hull KR
Lets face it they have started the process already with running a joint academy. Plus listening to Lee Radford on Rugby AM about the state of junior rugby league in Hull it makes even more sense.
Workington & Whitehaven
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Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ??
Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago.
Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ?
Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit".
Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s)
The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'"
https://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpr ... 738478/amp
That’s before we won the hub cap and 2 years after we went to wembley.
“This is the third consecutive year we have posted a profit without any financial assistance”
Just a quick google of ‘Cas tigers profit’ would have saved you looking dumb and bitter
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Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ??
Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago.
Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ?
Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit".
Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s)
The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'"
https://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpr ... 738478/amp
That’s before we won the hub cap and 2 years after we went to wembley.
“This is the third consecutive year we have posted a profit without any financial assistance”
Just a quick google of ‘Cas tigers profit’ would have saved you looking dumb and bitter
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| Quote ="Cas Till I Die"https://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpress.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/castleford-tigers/castleford-tigers-announce-annual-profit-of-286-052-1-8738478/amp
That’s before we won the hub cap and 2 years after we went to wembley.
“This is the third consecutive year we have posted a profit without any financial assistance”
Just a quick google of ‘Cas tigers profit’ would have saved you looking dumb and bitter
'"
And banging on about making a profit, when you've traditionally been bank rolled by Mr Fulton give a slightly false impression.
Do you know how much the directors loans are from the Fultons or, have they all been written off.
Btw, not bitter, its been a great turnround since Powell came on board and you could be really challenging if not for some injuries.
Get back to me when you find out.
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Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ??
Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago.
Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ?
Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit".
Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s)
The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'"
Yes a profit
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.york ... 738442/amp
Things have improved considerably since Daz Clark was sold 4 years ago... Increase in attendances, League leaders prize money, Denny Solomona settlement.
I believe the Fulton debt was converted to shares.
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Quote ="wrencat1873""Make a profit" ??
Is that why you sold you best player "cash upfront" to Wire a couple of seasons ago.
Also, how much of the Fulton loans are still on the books or, were they written off when he passed away ?
Having a wealthy guy to take care of any losses seems a little different from being "in profit".
Agree about competent on the field and not sure about the use of the cap and any marque player(s)
The cup run and hub cap have certainly helped and well done on those.'"
Yes a profit
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.york ... 738442/amp
Things have improved considerably since Daz Clark was sold 4 years ago... Increase in attendances, League leaders prize money, Denny Solomona settlement.
I believe the Fulton debt was converted to shares.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"And banging on about making a profit, when you've traditionally been bank rolled by Mr Fulton give a slightly false impression.
Do you know how much the directors loans are from the Fultons or, have they all been written off.
Btw, not bitter, its been a great turnround since Powell came on board and you could be really challenging if not for some injuries.
Get back to me when you find out.'"
We haven’t been bank rolled for 3 years and obviously won’t this year with last season, what part of ‘no financial assistance’ don’t you get ??? Banging on about how we have been bank rolled in the past is about as much use as me banging on about the 367 times wakey have gone bust. I have no idea how much We owe the Fulton’s and as long as we keep making a profit it doesn’t matter does it.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"And banging on about making a profit, when you've traditionally been bank rolled by Mr Fulton give a slightly false impression.'"
No....they posted a profit. The profit bit is a fact BTW.....unlike wakefields new stadium
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| A Leigh and Catalans merger works for me
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise""The meaning and outcome of communication is in the response you get" suggests I have not explained myself.
I am not saying get rid of layers 2/3 I am saying link them to a SL club. This way we have 14 SL clubs and 14 feeder clubs not dissimilar to the NRL version. All these players that don't make the grade or are too old to make the grade anymore will have a place to play at a competitive level.
Halifax are a Championship club that everyone applauds because they have reserve grade - but if you look at their starting 17 not one has come through the academy system so why should these clubs get more funding to simply employ players developed by other SL clubs - players such as Scott Murrell, Ben Johnston, Will Maher, Simon Grix, Steve Tyrer etc. etc.
If we alienated all the fans from the Championship - which wouldn't happen as I would include Bradford, London, Toulouse and Toronto/Cumbria in the SL - how many fans are you actually going to lose - 300 at Hunslet, 500 at Keighley, 400 at Swinton etc 10-15k at the most and not all these would simply stop attending.
For me history is a anchor not a springboard for RL.'"
It's true that Fax don't have a recent history of taking academy level players through the reserves into the first team, but it's certainly something that's being addressed... [urlhttps://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/squads/halifax_academy[/url, and we do have one player (Will Calcott) that did come via the academy and has progressed through the reserves to play for the 1st team.
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| There are three clubs about 50 feet away from each other all competing for the same: bods on seats, sponsors and TV money.
Surely it makes perfect sense that these 3 clubs COMBINE and create a truly proper super club called CALDER UNITED RLFC and play at the new Castleford Stadium??
The 3 clubs right now are about as useful as one of these....
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| Quote ="HXSparky"It's true that Fax don't have a recent history of taking academy level players through the reserves into the first team, but it's certainly something that's being addressed... [urlhttps://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/squads/halifax_academy[/url, and we do have one player (Will Calcott) that did come via the academy and has progressed through the reserves to play for the 1st team.'"
Halifax will not be an isolated case - all the better sides in the Championship will be full of ex SL developed players. I ask again - should the monies go to these clubs that have consistently demonstrated an inability to develop young players either for themselves or other clubs.
What is the point in keeping clubs going that neither develop young players or who attract any kind of supporter base? Surely the monies are better spent elsewhere?
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| Quote ="Joff"There are three clubs about 50 feet away from each other all competing for the same: bods on seats, sponsors and TV money.
Surely it makes perfect sense that these 3 clubs COMBINE and create a truly proper super club called CALDER UNITED RLFC and play at the new Castleford Stadium??'"
I reckon they'd lose 25% of their core support, meaning they'd have an average of 12,000 immediately and in a 15k stadium, there's be a demand for tickets......but, the missing 3,000 fans would whine like ugly bridesmaids about 100's of years of history.......putting off any new younger fans.
Wakefield and the like are the anchor that is holding SL from actually being super.....they are in the shadow of Castleford who have shown what can be achieved by marketing themselves.
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