[uRound 1 Fixtures[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 64,387 (Avg: 9,19icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 63,376 (Avg: 9,054)
% increase = +1.59%

[uRound 2 Fixtures[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 69,809 (Avg: 9,973)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,989 (Avg: 10,284)
% decrease = -3.03%

[uRound 3 Fixtures[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 58,711 (Avg: 8,387)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,246 (Avg: 10,17icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -17.59%

[uRound 4 Fixtures[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 46,166 (Avg: 7,694)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 55,477 (Avg: 9,246)
% decrease = -16.78%

[uRound 5 Fixtures[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 50,207 (Avg: 7,172)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 57,593 (Avg: 8,22icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -12.82%

[uRounds 1 to 5 Fixtures[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 289,280 (Avg: 8,50icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 319,681 (Avg: 9,402)
% decrease = -9.51%

Championship average this weekend 814

If we can avoid the ridiculous cherry picking and fudging of statistics we are getting with regard to SL.

How much of that is simply down to the clubs playing in that league now compared to before. Cas, Salford, HKR, and Widnes have moved up and effectively been replaced by clubs from Championship 2 and how much is down to falls at the clubs in the championship?

I havent compared it to anything



It would be silly to even compare with the last 4/5 seasons as we have gone from 5 matches to 7

It was 814 this week , that is the only fact that is relevant , what anybody wants to ' make of it ' is up to them , I haven't even commented either way myself

But as you are here , what is your opinion of it , as it seems you are ' interested ' ?

So when asked the following question......

''No, the whole reasoning behind this thread is that you think (and want others to believe too) that the regular season has become 'meaningless'.......so again quite ironic that your explaination of why the Hull/Wire crowd was so big was because several thousand extra Wire fans turned out to watch their team win the LLS.........you know, the prize you get for finishing 1st in the 'meaningless' weekly rounds. explain that dead-end you've just driven yourself into????''

Old Billy could only muster this response.....



Translation = I CAN'T answer that

It wasnt aimed at you

It would be absolutely mental.

It would depend pretty much entirely on the answer to the question i asked earlier

.

Not really , it is either good or bad , what clubs were in the competition previously is totally irrelivant

Without checking back the season average is probably just under 1,000 so far

If Hemel get 1k, thats pretty good, if Leeds get 1k, then we have trouble

The fact is championship attendances were always going to go down when their best attended 4 teams were taken out. There was never going to be a situation where Cas could get promoted and replaced by a championship 1 side and the attendances werent going to go down.

If the drop can pretty much entirely explained by the change of teams then I wouldnt worry about that figure at all. If there is a uniform drop in the lower leagues then that is something to look at.

What if Hunslet get 400 ? , is that good or bad ?

in and of itself it is nothing.

Its a fairly abstract standpoint you seem to be taking.

Do you think there is, at this point, an attendance that championship clubs should be getting?

I'd suggest it is poor

No , all I am doing is posting the average , so people can pass an opinion if they wish , be that a positive one or a negative one , it was you that entered abstract points with your Hemel and Leeds analogy

Yes , more than they currently are if we want a ' vibrant ' competition as any matches with less than a couple of thousand attending will have a poor atmosphere , just as SL matches with 2000 odd will not be good for the ' Vibrancy ' of that competition

Continue if you like , I'll just post next weeks figures when I have them

[uComparative attendances by SL Round[/u

[uTRANSLATION[/u: Just as SmokeyTA likes it... completely unfudged... no really.

Round 1 Attendance in SL 2013 = 64,387
Round 1 Attendance in SL 2012 = 73,720
Percentage drop in attendance = -12.66%

Round 2 Attendance in SL 2013 = 69,809
Round 2 Attendance in SL 2012 = 74,948
Percentage drop in attendance = -6.86%

Round 3 Attendance in SL 2013 = 58,711
Round 3 Attendance in SL 2012 = 63,612
Percentage drop in attendance = -7.70%

Round 4 Attendance in SL 2013 = 46,166
Round 4 Attendance in SL 2012 = 53,316
Percentage drop in attendance = -13.41%

Round 5 Attendance in SL 2013 = 50,207
Round 5 Attendance in SL 2012 = 67,991
Percentage drop in attendance = -26.16%

Total Attendance Rounds 1 to 5 in 2013 = 289,280
Total Attendance Rounds 1 to 5 in 2012 = 333,587
Percentage drop in attendance Rounds 1 to 5 = -13.28%

Looking forward to a press release from the RFL on SL attendances and TV viewing figures in 2013 fairly soon... [url=http://www.therfl.co.uk/news/article/24528/record-numbers-switching-on[uJUST LIKE LAST YEAR[/u[/url

Fudge! Lies! Agenda! I know what's happened here...yes, they might be the numbers AS RECORDED...but how do I know you haven't been meddling with the turnstiles?

Aww, William's BFF is still humping his leg.....cute

just to add to the discussion on championship attendances, i was poking through a few old programmes and found the 2001 trans-penine cup final programme. this was leigh vs. keighley at cougar park and as such the programme was produced by kieghley. attendances are as follows
Hunslet A 1404
Dewsbury H 2511
York A 943
Gateshead A 1052
Hull KR H 2150
Sheffield A 1642
Fev H 3269
Rochdale Mayfield(CC) H 1764
Doncaster A 1691
Hull FC(CC) H 4401
Batley H 1728
Rochdale H 1533
Workington A 1099
Barrow H 2431
Widnes A 3469
Leigh H 3727
Whitehaven A 895
Swinton H 1719
Hull KR A 1910
Chorley H 1501
Oldham A 1815
Hunslet H 1465
Whitehaven 1208
Dewsbury A 1052
Sheffield H 1471

today the fixture that drew 3727(imagine that London fans

) in 2001 got an attendance in the 800's

'vibrant and worth winning in its own right'?

Haha, frustrating when facts get in the way of your argument isn't it? Come on, you must have another explanation of why the numbers are wrong? Did he forget to include straw men in the count?

unfortunately your research counts as 'talking the game down', so we'll pretend it doesn't exist if that's OK.

Nobody, anywhere, has argued that attendances have risen as a whole from 2012 to 2013.

PS: just because Agent Provocatroll deliberately used the straw men idiom incorrectly as part of his trolling, dont think it helps you to do the same.

Does anyone know why is round 4 in 2012 so low?

Its so low in 2013 because there is a Leeds home game missing (which when included will obviously lead to a fairly substantial year on year rise)



Im assuming you havent attempted to mislead us by including the Wigan v Widnes game in round 3 2012, so the same is applicable there too. So that would be a hell of a drop in a week from 76k in round 3 to 53k in round 4

think you're right there

How do you know I haven't been meddling with the westerly traffic flow on the M62 on Friday night?



Poor old SmokeyTA faces a bit of a conundrum.

Does he accept my attendance figures which he claims are not like-for-like, untrue, false, wrong and fudged? These being the comparative stats between the same teams in the same fixtures which, to date, show an overall fall in SL attendances of 12.8% compared to last year?

Or does he accept the attendance figures arrived at by a round by round comparison which are apparently like-for-like and much favoured by himself and the RFL? Which. to date, show an overall fall in SL attendances of 13.28% compared to last year?

12.82% or 13.28%... eh Smokey?

Time to decide

Welcome to the VT

' resistance ' will not be tolerated

Not really, I've not denied that 2012 has higher numbers, I've not even said the 2011 were lower (simply he messed up 2 attendances, which he even admitting by changing them). What i've done (quite shockingly I know) is provide reasons when applicable. Some have clear reasons - Saints/Leeds & Hull/Bradford - that you both try and downplay this joking about some M62 agenda actually speaks massive volumes about how badly you want the numbers to be down (oh I forgot, you're RL fans in general and want the sport you 'love' to florish

) whilst some are just quite poor (Bradford, London etc.). Some I believe have valid reasons for being lower, whilst some I agree don't. But I forgot 'suggesting' reasons isn't allowed.

we can't challenge your man-crush now can we.

What's just tragic is when he puts up lower numbers for 2013 each week you're like some high school cheerleader with your little pom-poms cheering him on. Even using the 'straw man' phrase just because he has like you're some young girl copying everything her high school crush does to get him to like you.



So keep standing on the sidelines shouting ''GO BILLY, GO BILLY, GO!''..........the rest of us will just cringe at you.

I'm merely copying your perfect (non-fudged of course... no, really) round for round comparison method Smokey. You know, just like when you claimed that Rounds 2, 3 and 4 in 2013 were better attended than they were in 2011... [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=17286238&tsmp=1362352203#p17286238[uHERE[/u[/url... but failed to disclose that you'd purposely misleaded us all with the Round 3 figures in 2011 by omitting the Wigan V Castleford fixture [url=http://slstats.rlfans.com/index.php?generic=1&comp=37&round=3[uHERE[/u[/url when the attendance was in fact [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/07/wigan-castleford-super-league[u13,096[/u[/url which means that your assertion was incorrect and deliberately misleading all along?

Round 2 attendances 2011 59947
round 2 attendances 2013 69809

round 3 attendances 2011 51216 =#FF0000+ 13096 = 64312*
round 3 attendances 2013 58711

round 4 attendances 2011 59217
round 4 attendances 2013 46166

total = rounds 2,3,4 attendances 2011 170380 =#FF0000+ 13096 = 183476*
total = rounds 2,3,4 attendances 2013 174686

Happy to help.

=#FF0000*Amendments to Smokey's agenda-driven omissions in red

Careful Smokey, or else we'll all have to assume you've got an agenda