On the strength of that game, it's quite damning that most of the players are "up to international rugby union".

Admittedly I have only just seen the highlights, but some of the defensive attempts by the Baa-Baas were laughable, one thing that always strikes me when I watch union is that some of the players' technique is horrible, going in with heads the wrong side just asking to be knocked out.

Apart from being generally incapable of passing accurately, offloading,catching or tackling the Barbarians didn't look that bad to me. At least Tomkins didn't give them any cause to denigrate RL. Must have been the easiest money he's ever made playing rugby.

www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/mat ... _1,00.html "When I came in on Tuesday I was so raw I didn't even know what the numbers for each position were," said Tomkins. "The boys were saying 'we'll play this off the 12 or the 10' and I didn't even know where those blokes were so that was a bit of a challenge. "There are so many differences between league and union. I understand it a little bit more now. "Where I am from people don't know what rugby union is and I am glad I have had the chance to play but I am still a rugby league player. "The try was a good way to finish it off but we didn't manage to get much going."

www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/mat ... _1,00.html "When I came in on Tuesday I was so raw I didn't even know what the numbers for each position were," said Tomkins. "The boys were saying 'we'll play this off the 12 or the 10' and I didn't even know where those blokes were so that was a bit of a challenge. "There are so many differences between league and union. I understand it a little bit more now. "Where I am from people don't know what rugby union is and I am glad I have had the chance to play but I am still a rugby league player. "The try was a good way to finish it off but we didn't manage to get much going."

I haven't seen the game, but I got a text off a Yawnion-bumming mate simply saying, "Tomkins is having a f****** nightmare"

all in all the barbarians was terrible falling off tackles not passing accurate 5 meters away to say it was hes first game your mate is talking bull.

i would say watch the game for your self but it was terrible. any one have the numbers on miss tackles, incomplete passes, knock ons and forward passes? to be fair sam soar the ball a few times but the passes were either behind him, at hes feet or he was cleaning up a loose ball. the only time they put a couple of decent passes together he scored. he had the chance to stop one try but to be fair it was a big forward and he looked very uninterested at that point. got iscolated once early on and he looked nervous at backing him self. really he could of scored 3 trys.

any rugby union fan who says they are better atheletes or even more skillfull they are a first grade nutter.

one thing union commentators are very good at is ignoring the obvious, it was crap and unskill full but they never made a real negative comment where as eddie and stevo would be moaning about it till 2017.

You should patent this and make bumper stickers, you'd sell thousands.

Finally, a voice of reason.

Despite the subpar basic skills in relation to League, Rugby backs if anything are immense athletes. I really don't think too many out and out League fans realise just how good the best Rugby players are, strictly from an athletic stand point. There's tons of ing gun backs in Rugby. There's hundreds of wingers, centres and fullbacks who athletically are as good as our best, with many putting ours to shame.

If League teams had a raised cap - above that of Rugby to the point you could entice some ruggers - you could bet your that League clubs would be raiding the out of Rugby. NZ in particular have some ANIMALS.

Anyone saying Tomkins shouldn't have been played on the wing also imo are kidding themselves. Tomkins outside of Freuan was the ing best place for him, because Freuan will break the line for fun. The right side was obviously the strongest.

It's infuriating to me that Rugby has so many phenomenal athletes in the backline and even in the forwards these days(thinking of the modern day number 8's), because if they were bred into League they'd be stars. No question. English League in particular has real problems breeding freak athletes, even compared to Aus and NZ League players, who are in many ways inferior to Rugby players, at least in the backline.

Your Freuans, Rangers, Toevas, Gears, Habanas, Chavangas, Tuilagis, even your Ojo's and Monyes would tear it up.

I have no ing idea why the book wasn't thrown at someone like Hosea Gear a few years back. Even today the NRL should be trying to steal players like Freuan and Ranger. The game might not be all that but there's some ridiculous athletes in Rugby.

That's actually wrong. The best place for Tomkins was on Frueans outside. He's safe from exposure on the wing and Fruean is always breaking and putting the men on his side into open field.

Was he the one that couldn't pass?

Even I know there's no way Tomkins could play stand off or full back in Union without alot of practice. Wing is the only place they could play him after a few days.

Even I know there's no way Tomkins could play stand off or full back in Union without alot of practice. Wing is the only place they could play him after a few days.

Rancid,

Since when did being a fat lazy lump make you an athlete? Lying down pie eating for the Olympics anyone?

And if that was a display of rugby skills at their finest.........

No. He was the one that played Tomkins into the game for all of the game. He made one poor pass at the start of the game to his inside, rather than his outside, fearing that Tomkins would be exposed in the ruck for the 3rd time in as many minutes. He chose a difficult pass because Tomkins showed himself to be a liablity taking the ball into contact in the first 20.

I would hardly call 1 failed pass in a game - especially given the circumstances - being "unable to pass".

But if it helps you sleep better pretending Fruean isn't a tank because he's playing Union that's your prerogative.

Exactly right mate, glad someone else has a basic understanding of Rugby. Anyone claiming he was stifled by being on the wing is talking nonsense, that's the best place for him given he has no understanding of the game and wing is largely a passenger position.

Also strictly League fans need to understand that most Rugby backs aren't getting their hands on the ball all that often. His perceived lack of involvement - by League fans - is completely normal for Rugby wings. Tomkins actually went well, given it's his first game and he had only a few training sessions. He did League well, despite what any Rugby toffs might say



Name me a fat winger, fullback or centre in Rugby.

And nobody is talking about skill mate. League players have superior core skills, no question, that's why Rugby takes our coaches and players. But don't talk wet. If you can't see that pro Rugby backs are better athletes than ours then you need to put it down mate.

There was about 3 players on the field who run the 100metre in sub 11 seconds. You can't say that about any League game in the history of League. Tell me I'm wrong mate.

You're wrong. Mate

But I could be mistaken cos I'm still a bit sleepy from watching that borefest. Took up space on sky+ drive it did too. Even the sky box is sluggish now after that!

Just as an aside, as devils advocate, surely being a good athlete means you have a high quality skill set which you can produce at pace and under high pressure.

Didn't see much of that today. Its alright being able to run fast if that's all you can do!

I don't care how the game was. And no, I'm not wrong. Ioane, Habana and Turner all run a sub 100m.

Still waiting on you to name a fat winger, fullback or centre. Please, enlighten me.

Well not really, mate, skill is skill.

Athleticism has nothing to do with being able to run lines, catch passes, throw them etc.

Nobody except the deluded are saying Rugby players are more or even as skillful as League players. What honest people are saying is that there's plenty of athletes in Rugby that embarrass our best.

You just come across as irrational and deluded by hatred of Rugby to deny that there's many amazing world class athletes in the game.

I'd love to see Ioane, Habana and O'Connor in rugby league.

Poor planning from the union men? He should have been on Habana's wing. A quality player who knows what to do with ball in hand. Sam would have scored two or three.

I have to disagree mate. Habana is approaching that side of the hill and has always been a man to exploit breaks and space, rather than create them.

Fruean is one of the best line break merchants in Rugby. Tomkins was better placed on the right. Habana didn't create much in the way of opportunity in the game, where as Fruean broke the line at will

(I also think people are being a little harsh on Tomkins performance by suggesting he should have been placed elsewhere - He played extremely well given it was his first pro game in a team that was and played off the park) By saying he should have been in position x, y or z it kind of implied he went on the right wing and shouldn't have been there, which I don't think is true

Devils advocate rancid. Know what that means?

Get off your high horse

Your definition of "athlete" is wrong, that's why you're all flustered.

Sam might not be as fast as some of those union backs but he is a better athlete cos he has a better skill set which he regularly produces at pace and under pressure

Union backs have superb upper body development but lack real athleticism, in relation to their upper body their core and leg muscles are under developed.

Apart from a couple of obvious exceptions Union backs also lack agility which is down to an over emphasis on strength training at the expense of a more universal athletic perpetration.

Their cadence is often suitable for nothing more than straight line speed in much the same way that 100mtr sprinters are, ask them to run lines, step, use agility and evasion and some can't do it, those that can, do so in a very rudimentary fashion that's light years behind League backs.

Their energy systems are at base levels, they do not have the aerobic capacity of League athletes and until they learn to prepare themselves as athletes and not bodybuilders they will never rival the performance levels attained by Rugby League players.

He's only 28, isn't he?

Playing Devils advocate is taking a position you don't agree with for the sake of argument. My response was valid whether you're playing devils advocate or not(which I seriously doubt you are).

What you're saying is that Sam is a more skillfull player. But being a good player and being an athlete aren't synonymous. James Graham and Michael Weyman are good players - Neither are out and out athletes.

Andy "The Viking" Fordham is a world class athlete by your definition

and Usain Bolt is a athlete because there's little skill in running

You're also, I would argue, being deceitful. You suggested Rugby players were fat and lazy and therefore non-athletic. In your earlier posts by saying that you agreed yourself that athleticism is measured on physicality, not skill... Or you wouldn't have implied fat people can't be athletes.

You're all over the place mate. Are you that biased and irrational that you just can't accept plenty of Rugby players are better athletes than our own?

Yep. It doesn't matter that there's rugby wingers more explosive, faster, stronger, heavier, fitter than Tomkins. Their ability to run lines isn't as good so they're inferior athletes. If you tried making that argument to somebody who wasn't familiar with either sport they would laugh in your face!