[quote="NickyKiss":19bbk8wb]It's a great time to be a Wigan fan, that's for sure. I see the odd comment on social media and on various forums about how we're doing things that wouldn't have happened under Lenagan but that's unfair IMO. He didn't have the wealth of Danson and should be thanked for selling the club on to a guy who seems to not only care about it but has the finance to help make it successful. He did many important things for Wigan Lenagan but that is probably the biggest of the lot.[/quote:19bbk8wb] Without IL I dread to think where we would be today. When he purchased us I was pretty amazed because the club was in a terrible state with very limited income streams. He turned the club around, made some auspicious coaching appointments and mentored KR into becoming an excellent CEO. Danson was the cherry on top.

[quote="Stu M":3q2hrf9t]You'll probably sign Robertson now... In all seriousness those 3 are very good players and I believe Stephens has signed a new 4 year deal. Robertson has been training at centre pre-season and again this has been offered up as a reason for Vaughan's disillusionment in that he is not starting. I think this Salford game in R1 is huge. Lose that and the atmosphere will very quickly become toxic. Depending on what team Salford are able to field will make a huge difference. If the takeover isn't complete then they can't play most of the players is my understanding. With a full strength team they are more than capable of beating us and Wellens plans of only having one pre-season friendly and resting half of the team will come back big time to bite him.[/quote:3q2hrf9t] Irrespective of what team Salford have out I think that you will give them a proper beating. Your first 3 games are heaven sent in terms of getting off to a good start. I’m pretty confident that you will be top of the table after 3 rounds. I don’t think that you will finish top come the end of the season but you will finish in the top 4 unless you have some real bad luck on the injuries front.

Seems like a media blackout re. the two Saints lads, wonder if the clubs are negotiating a deal to release them for this season, Saints won't want to spend anymore time/cash on their development and Wigan won't want them out of a pro environment for 12 months

[quote="Itchy Arsenal":1lj5dn69]Irrespective of what team Salford have out I think that you will give them a proper beating. Your first 3 games are heaven sent in terms of getting off to a good start. I’m pretty confident that you will be top of the table after 3 rounds. I don’t think that you will finish top come the end of the season but you will finish in the top 4 unless you have some real bad luck on the injuries front.[/quote:1lj5dn69] I don’t think Salford is a walk in the park as made out. They are a decent side and I imagine will be itching to settle things down on the pitch. I can see Saints getting beat in that game as they did in the pre season game with them

JV is an interesting one, I have read that he is England Academy captain and I recall on this forum that he caught the eye in the Reserves GF against us at centre.

[quote="WWste":vlalvwq3]I don’t think Salford is a walk in the park as made out. They are a decent side and I imagine will be itching to settle things down on the pitch. I can see Saints getting beat in that game as they did in the pre season game with them[/quote:vlalvwq3] When Salford have their full team out and are playing confidently, they're a very strong side. Rumours floating around a takeover might be announced tomorrow - if that's the case and Salford can keep their squad together then they'll be competing for the playoffs again if not top 4.

Thinking about it a bit more, Wigan were well stocked with back rowers and had a succession plan but losing as many as they have means you can understand why they have looked at Vaughan. Shane Eccles will have coached him for England Academy and will know him well but over the last few years they've lost Isa, KPP, Nicholson, Bateman, even James McDonnell. I may have missed some more out there Mason and Kerr are backrowers I believe? Vaughan will add to the competition particularly if Farrell's minutes are more limited in 2026.

[quote="Stu M":24g00lbr]Thinking about it a bit more, Wigan were well stocked with back rowers and had a succession plan but losing as many as they have means you can understand why they have looked at Vaughan. Shane Eccles will have coached him for England Academy and will know him well but over the last few years they've lost Isa, KPP, Nicholson, Bateman, even James McDonnell. I may have missed some more out there Mason and Kerr are backrowers I believe? Vaughan will add to the competition particularly if Farrell's minutes are more limited in 2026.[/quote:24g00lbr] Just a hunch but I still think we will be recruiting a front line secondrow in the next month or so. Not a big name but a senior secondrow who will compete for a spot in the 17 alongside Walters.

[quote="Stu M":umh3icww]Because I'm wondering now if Saints are spending up to cap or saving money to offset losses. We are continually told that we are by the club but players leaving and players coming in doesn't add up unless we've made a bad job of managing it. Matautia has not been replaced and you could argue that some of that may be taken up with Delaney's new deal but who knows.[/quote:umh3icww] They need to spend money otherwise it is an ever decreasing circle. I know that Lees has not signed a deal yet and is still in negations with Saints.

[del:18nitoc3][/del:18nitoc3][quote="Stu M":18nitoc3]Staggered by this to be honest, I really am, for a number of reasons. Wigan have acted like a huge club again, forward thinking and from what I am hearing, Peet and Radlinski have outlined a plan and shown some real faith in Vaughan in particular. I have heard the other side of the story but I'm not putting that on here. What is clear is that we have sleep walked yet again and our biggest rivals have beaten us to the punch. Its just another sign of the general malaise at the club that after feeling positive with the signings, the new assistant coaches and the feel good nature of pre-season and the players comments, that the Salford defeat, Knowles leaving and now this has just added to the negativity. What I don't get though is the plan that Wigan will have. Vaughan is a competitor who didn't really do loads last season but there was also mitigation for that. He has been Lancashire and England Academy captain and is a terrific leader. A die hard Saints fan who has now signed for the enemy. However Wigan don't need to poach Academy lads when they have the best Academy in the comp. What now happens to their young lads? Walters, Nsemba and Farrell will be the back rows and that's without the Wigan Academy lads Where does Sambou get a look in with Eckersley and Wardle. What then happens with Nathan Lowe who is extremely highly rated at Wigan, unless they are looking at a wing spot but then of course there is Jacob Douglas. Sambou isn't the one that I am that worried about, he's coming off the back of a bad injury and Dagnall and Robertson are ahead of him. He may or may not turn out to be a good player. I've argued with Saints fans about my worry of Wigan being the Man City of Rugby league and effectively turning the comp into a procession each year. Whilst that's great for Wigan fans it's not great for the game. They can't buy everyone but their financial strength means that no one can get near them. I agree with NK that I can see both players being bought out and coming a year early. They simply can't stay at Saints and why should Saints invest in any sort of development for them when they are going to Wigan. We should let them rot and not play them nor send them out on dual reg but if they went earlier, we save a bit of SC and get them away from the environment. What I will say though is that after Peet's comments about Matty Nicholson, it's quite ironic and I wonder what he would say now? Also there were lots on here saying that Vaughan isn't really all that when they were mocking the "golden generation" Saints talk about. Funny how the narrative changes From Saints point of view we simply have to wake up and start to act like a big club again. We have gone from the most dominant team in RL to a laughing stock in 2 years. I get that Wigan fans will laugh at this and love it. Of course they will but Wigan need a strong Saints so be careful what you wish for. The sport needs a strong Saints and Wigan and at the minute and seemingly for the foreseeable future, there is only one powerhouse.[/quote:18nitoc3] I don't know much about the lads although I do know that Vaughan was the MOM in the Reserve Final. The coaching staff at St Helens put both lads in the bracket of a 'golden generation', it is also interesting that up until this week the vast majority of Saints fans were labelling them likewise.

[quote="Cherry_&_White":1a9hv7hg]It's a fair point that. I suspect that Peet probably regrets being as forthright as he was - in public at least - when that was announced. A big difference though is that Wigan (alongside Saints) have easily the best record in bringing through their own academy players compared to everyone else in the league. So you can hardly make the 'demoralised' comment about anyone in the Wigan set up, whereas maybe you could for Wire. Hopefully we're starting to see that change under Burgess. And on the Man City point, I think the only way that happens is with serious changes to the salary cap. As good as it feels to be a Wigan fan just now, sport is cyclical and no amount of clever salary cap management and positive culture is going to keep us on top. It's only a couple of years since Saints seemed almost untouchable.[/quote:1a9hv7hg] Peet was upset with Nicholson not Wire.

[quote="Stu M":vephbjw6]This isn't sour grapes as I've said the exact same thing on Red Vee but the points you make on Vaughan are valid. I don't know what his USP is. He's not big, he's not super strong and he's not quick. He's a competitor no question but I don't know where he fits in. You are spot on in that he could well turn out to be a Bateman. In 2-3 years time it will be clear who made the right decision. It's not a great look when die hard Saints fans are making the decision to go to Wigan although to be fair perhaps you could return serve with Welsby who was a Wigan fan and ended up at Saints. Also it's worrying when Wigan are signing lads from the likes of Thatto Heath who again are St Helens lads born and bred and fans of the club but that's another conversation. I've been very critical of the club of late and nothing is changing my mind however to play devils advocate, I do wonder if they are putting a lot of faith in Jake Davies and Billy Keeley, both back-rowers a couple of years younger and well thought of. Perhaps they've looked at the emergence of those two who knows. That's an assumption on my part that I am clinging onto![/quote:vephbjw6] Davies and Keeley are no Nsembe, they are years off regular first team action. Welsby wasn't a Wigan Warriors fan, he only ever wanted to sign for Saints.

[quote="Stu M":31svxn9w]Thinking about it a bit more, Wigan were well stocked with back rowers and had a succession plan but losing as many as they have means you can understand why they have looked at Vaughan. Shane Eccles will have coached him for England Academy and will know him well but over the last few years they've lost Isa, KPP, Nicholson, Bateman, even James McDonnell. I may have missed some more out there Mason and Kerr are backrowers I believe? Vaughan will add to the competition particularly if Farrell's minutes are more limited in 2026.[/quote:31svxn9w] Kerr's a loose forward I think, albeit a versatile one who could easily be played at second row to begin with. He's played in the halves during preseason, so all being well he'll be able to get his chance irrespective of our plans with Vaughan.

[quote="NSW":28ugcugc]To be fair they stopped NRL interest in Delaney. I spoke to Radlinski and he alluded to Knowles signing a huge contract (this was in March 2022), stopped NRL interest in Welsby And signed Feldt, Murphy and Sailor who look like 3 good buys on paper. Daryl Clark wouldn’t have been a cheap replacement for Roby Think saints fans are being a little harsh on the club, they are in a transition period after years of dominance, it’ll happen to us too.[/quote:28ugcugc] I can't understand the signing of Sailor. In my view it restricts Robertson's progression unless Welsby is on his way soon.

[quote="Zig":32gfhfng]Davies and Keeley are no Nsembe, they are years off regular first team action. Welsby wasn't a Wigan Warriors fan, he only ever wanted to sign for Saints.[/quote:32gfhfng] Sam Tomkins was his idol and all his family were big fans.

[quote="NSW":32crvw5w]Would make sense Vaughan coming now. Can’t see a big name coming in unless someone unexpected leaves. Douglas is off contract (maybe replaced by Sambo?) Byrne is going to Wire but it’s looking like Hill will be the replacement (with McDermott etc back filling) Keighran is the big one, I’m not 100% sure Eckerlsey can slot straight in there but hopefully we’ll know during the year. Don’t think we’re in a place to sign a big player.[/quote:32crvw5w] Hill will eventually replace Ellis.

[quote="Phuzzy":1rngto9n]Stu, I'd be interested in seeing the "he's not all that comments" on Vaughan. I don't remember anything specifically relating to him but that's not to say there haven't been any. I think the comments have been more general and centred around Saints seeming reliance on the 'golden generation' and the fact that it's crazy to put your eggs in that particular basket. These signings actually go some way to proving that as there's two straight away who won't be having long first team careers at Saints (or however Mike Rush phrased it). Others may yet follow suit at some stage and then there's the usual ones that flatter to deceive etc. You mention the other side of the negotiations. Was this conducting them by message as rumoured on Redvee or something more?[/quote:1rngto9n] This is what Saints thought of them. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/24 ... er-league/

[quote="Phuzzy":1rngto9n]Stu, I'd be interested in seeing the "he's not all that comments" on Vaughan. I don't remember anything specifically relating to him but that's not to say there haven't been any. I think the comments have been more general and centred around Saints seeming reliance on the 'golden generation' and the fact that it's crazy to put your eggs in that particular basket. These signings actually go some way to proving that as there's two straight away who won't be having long first team careers at Saints (or however Mike Rush phrased it). Others may yet follow suit at some stage and then there's the usual ones that flatter to deceive etc. You mention the other side of the negotiations. Was this conducting them by message as rumoured on Redvee or something more?[/quote:1rngto9n] This is what Saints thought of them. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/24 ... er-league/

[quote="Stu M":zqe23820]You'll probably sign Robertson now... In all seriousness those 3 are very good players and I believe Stephens has signed a new 4 year deal. Robertson has been training at centre pre-season and again this has been offered up as a reason for Vaughan's disillusionment in that he is not starting. I think this Salford game in R1 is huge. Lose that and the atmosphere will very quickly become toxic. Depending on what team Salford are able to field will make a huge difference. If the takeover isn't complete then they can't play most of the players is my understanding. With a full strength team they are more than capable of beating us and Wellens plans of only having one pre-season friendly and resting half of the team will come back big time to bite him.[/quote:zqe23820] I think I may have been wrong about Stephens Stu but, trying to fit Robertson in at centre seems a mistake (square peg in a round hole). He is a natural fullback or standoff. Saints should have signed a centre and played Robertson as a pivot.

[quote="Stu M":2mxtflve]You'll probably sign Robertson now... In all seriousness those 3 are very good players and I believe Stephens has signed a new 4 year deal. Robertson has been training at centre pre-season and again this has been offered up as a reason for Vaughan's disillusionment in that he is not starting. I think this Salford game in R1 is huge. Lose that and the atmosphere will very quickly become toxic. Depending on what team Salford are able to field will make a huge difference. If the takeover isn't complete then they can't play most of the players is my understanding. With a full strength team they are more than capable of beating us and Wellens plans of only having one pre-season friendly and resting half of the team will come back big time to bite him.[/quote:2mxtflve] We may be looking for a fullback!

[quote="apollosghost":2skja8pa]Seems like a media blackout re. the two Saints lads, wonder if the clubs are negotiating a deal to release them for this season, Saints won't want to spend anymore time/cash on their development and Wigan won't want them out of a pro environment for 12 months[/quote:2skja8pa] I agree, a small transfer fee should do it.