No it doesn't make more sense round to round for TV viewing figures......in fact the complete opposite. A game involving the same 2 teams is miles better to compare than 2 completely different teams just because it was played on the same weekend (would you expect Wigan/Wire to attract the same as London/2nd season Widnes?)

It's a good comparison for actual attendance (providing no new stadium or newly promoted or cheap season tickets)......for TV figures it's quite clearly rubbish.

The only reason you say round-for-round is better is because I've shown that game-for-game is better.......but you don't want that because positivity is bad isn't it


................................................................................................................................

And for William Eve.......
His stats could POSSIBLY be taken seriously if he could answer some questions, such as these ones he deliberately avoided before, simply and only because he has NO answer for them (which makes anything he writes/lists laughable and worthless)........


[i''And just for arguments sake lets allow you to keep your incorrect figures of 2013/2011 comparison TOTALS..... 220,648..... 232,744 (-12,096)..........I've already proven that Bradford at home are responsible for 14,217 less. So perhaps the thread should be renamed 'Bradford figures falling'.......but I've forgot, that's not the chosen agenda now is it.......so why not highlight, discuss and address that more accurate stat????''

''No, the whole reasoning behind this thread is that you think (and want others to believe too) that the regular season has become 'meaningless'.......so again quite ironic that your explaination of why the Hull/Wire crowd was so big was because several thousand extra Wire fans turned out to watch their team win the LLS.........you know, the prize you get for finishing 1st in the 'meaningless' weekly rounds. explain that dead-end you've just driven yourself into????''[/i

Until he's able to come up with a good answer to those questions (which he won't/can't/is unable to otherwise he would've already done so) then he is nothing more than a negative troll peddling incorrect figures trying to push home a personal agenda hoping others will bow down and say ''William you're a genius'' to satisfy some personal inadequacy he clearly has in his life. Until then only the fellow 'glass half empty inadequate folk' will drink the kool-aid with him.

No, I woudn't expect Wigan/Wire to attract same number of viewers as London/Widnes, which is EXACTLY WHY I was as surprised as anyone that, for the same round, same day, same time, Widnes/Wakefield got a huge number more viewers than Leeds/Hull a year later. The "agenda" conclusion - the one you are so keen to assume we all leap to - would be "catastrophe". However, I didn't make that conclusion at all. I suggested that it points to the idea that viewing figures are perhaps not so correlated to the actual teams on show. This seems to make some sense to me, as the vast majority of viewers are neutrals for any given game - i.e. they turn the telly on to "watch the RL game", not the team they support. I don't buy this explanation of massive increase in viewing to see the iPitch. There's probably some explanation but I don't think that's it. It may be nothing more than a correlation with what happens to be on the other sports channels, I don't know, but I'm betting that external random (such as that) or non-random ( such as importance of game re. League or cup) factors are more relevant to viewing figures than the specifc teams on the pitch.

I *think* ( and that's all I have ) that you're wrong about live attendaces - I'd confidentally expect these to be MORE correlated with opponent, than viewing figures are. I certainly think your "miles more" assertion is totally wrong. For instance, the broadcast time is really important - even without studying the stats I can say that confidently because its true for every other programme.

In fact, there's no need to debate it - one of us is right ( and genuinely I DO NOT CARE which) and this could be worked out by a correlation analysis of previous figures. I'll try to do this and tell you the answer regardless of who it shows to be 'right'.

It's 7 out of 29 SL fixtures which have shown an increase in 2013 over 2012, not 6... my apologies. Most of them were way back in Round 1. I listed them all earlier in the thread [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=17281813&tsmp=1362219057#p17281813[uHERE[/u[/url.

Firstly it isnt a strawman (we both know that what a straw man is, so i can only assume you are deliberately using it in the wrong context in an attempt to be funny)

secondly, attendances at SL grounds, on the whole, have been higher in 2013 than in 2011. This is the 2nd best attended rounds 2,3,4 in the history of the game. It is the 3rd best attended rounds 1-4 in the history of the game purely because in 2011 round 1 was the magic weekend. Other than that crowds have been better in 2013 than 2011.

And we can repeat again, (so you can add another bite to your hilarious, wonderful, intelligent trolling by repeating incorrect figures) that your figures do not include all the games played in 2011 or 2013 because this would show figures were up.

I did that originally, hence the thread title which highlighted a 12.66% drop in attendances in Round 1 compared to the same round last year but the usual suspects complained they weren't like-for-like figures because of the comparison between different fixtures. Of course, what they really meant was that the figures were unacceptable because they didn't match their expectations for positive news items ONLY. That's why I'm now comparing the attendances for the same fixtures between the same teams, but the usual suspects remain unhappy because the attendance figures still don't match their expectations for positive news items ONLY.

Your continued thread-hijacking obsession with 2011 attendances is noted, despite this thread being about a comparison with 2012 attendances. However, I'll indulge you on 2011 for one last time



Figures including non-like-for-like fixture comparisons involving Crusaders and Widnes fixtures.
2013 attendances (27 fixtures) = 239,073
2011 attendances (27 fixtures) = 247,114
% fall in attendances = -3.25%


Incorrect.
2013 attendances (Rounds 2,3,4 = 20 fixtures) = 174,686
2012 attendances (same 20 fixtures as in 2013) = 198,712
2011 attendances (same fixtures as in 2013 but including Widnes & Crusaders fixtures) = 186,967
% fall in attendance with 2012 = -12.09%
% fall in attendance with 2011 = -6.57%


Waffle!


Incorrect.


Repeat as many times as you like... you're still wrong.

You are wrong

Round 2 attendances 2011 59947
round 2 attendances 2013 69809

round 3 attendances 2011 51216
round 3 attendances 2013 58711

round 4 attendances 2011 59217
round 4 attendances 2013 46166

total = rounds 2,3,4 attendances 2011 170380
total = rounds 2,3,4 attendances 2013 174686

Happy to help.

[uRound 2 Fixtures[/u
[uFixture... 2013 attendance... 2012 attendance... %gain/loss... 2011 attendance... %gain/loss[/u
[iWigan V Warrington... 20,050... 21,267... -5.72%... 21,056... -4.78%
Catalan V Salford... 6,872... 8,158... -15.76%... 7,156... -3.97%
Wakefield V Hull KR... 9,237... 8,612... +7.26%... 7,283... +26.83%
Hudds V London... 5,273... 6,019... -12.39%... 5,220... +1.02%
Hull V Bradford... 10,952... 11,673... -6.18%... 11,346... -3.47%
Widnes V St Helens... 8,322... 7,023... +18.50%... =#FF00004,002... +107.95%
Castleford V Leeds... 9,103... 9,237... -1.45%... 9,860... -7.68%[/i
Total attendance in 2013 = 69,809 (Avg: 9,973)
Total attendance for fixtures in 2012 = 71,989 (Avg: 10,284)
% decrease V 2012= -3.03%
Total attendance for fixtures in 2011 = 65,923 (Avg: 9,41icon_cool.gif
% increase V 2011= +5.89%

Corresponding 2011 Crusaders V St Helens fixture in =#FF0000red

[uRound 3 Fixtures[/u
[uFixture... 2013 attendance... 2012 attendance... %gain/loss... 2011 attendance... %gain/loss[/u
[iLeeds V Salford... 12,558... 15,081... -16.73%... 13,068... -3.90%
Saints V Hull... 11,257... 14,875... -24.32%... 7,053... +59.61%
Warrington V Catalan... 10,015... 10,570... -5.25%... 10,056... -0.41%
Hudds V Wigan... 8,023... 10,123... -20.74%... 8,151... -1.57%
Bradford V Castleford... 7,724... 10,906... -29.18%... 14,348... -46.17%
Hull KR V Widnes... 7,247... 7,423... -2.37%... =#FF00008,602... -15.75%
London V Wakefield... 1,887... 2,268... -16.80%... 2,875... -34.37%[/i
Total attendance in 2013 = 58,711 (Avg: 8,387)
Total attendance for fixtures in 2012 = 71,246 (Avg: 10,17icon_cool.gif
% decrease V 2012 = -17.59%
Total attendance for fixtures in 2011 = 64,153 (Avg: 9,164)
% decrease V 2011 = -8.48%

*Corresponding 2011 Hull KR v Crusaders fixture in =#FF0000red

[uRound 4 Fixtures[/u
[uFixture... 2013 attendance... 2012 attendance... %gain/loss... 2011 attendance... %gain/loss[/u
[iBradford V Saints... 8,203... 11,360... -27.80%... 13,224... -37.97%
Hull V Warrington... 10,712... 12,710... -15.72%... 16,121... -33.56%
Wigan V London... 11,590... 12,608... -8.07%... 12,813... -9.54%
Castleford V Catalan... 5,205... 5,005... +3.99%... 4,889... +6.46%
Wakefield V Hudds... 8,467... 8,794... -3.72%... 5,436... +55.76%
Salford V Hull KR... 1,989... 5,000... -60.22%... 4,408... -54.88% [/i
Total attendance in 2013 = 46,166 (Avg: 7,694)
Total attendance for fixtures in 2012 = 55,477 (Avg: 9,246)
% decrease V 2012 = -16.78%
Total attendance for fixtures in 2012 = 56,891 (Avg: 9,482)
% decrease V 2011= -18.85%


[uTOTALS[/u
2013 attendances Rounds 2,3,4 = 69,809 + 58,711 + 46,166 = 174,686
2012 attendances = 71,989 + 71,246 + 55,477 = 198,712
2011 attendances = 65,923 + 64,153 + 56,891 = 186,967
% fall in attendance with 2012 = -12.09%
% fall in attendance with 2011 = -6.57%

HTH

you can keep fudging your figures all you want. It wont ever make them true.

More people went to watch rounds 2,3,4 in 2013 than did in 2011.

Fortunately the clubs can take that additional revenue to the bank, nobody can do anything useful with your misguided nonsense.

Happy to help you again.

Which attendances have I fudged?

Which attendances are not true?

If ever the phrase "Get a life!" was needed then this could be it.

Good god!! Is our little Billy still at it. Its time he did something useful with his life .........like disappearing (for ever).

All of them. Your evidence does not address the statement. It is a fudge. It is an avoidance of the facts.

He's providing the figures. If you want to provide the facts, that's up to you.

if only that was the case. Sadly it isnt. What we have is Mr Eve postulating a conclusion I.e crowds are falling, then scrambling to find evidence to back up that assertion and ignoring the evidence to the contrary, and drawing none-existent parallels.

It is, unarguable fact. That this seasons rounds 1,2,3,4 are the 3rd highest in our history, and only 3rd highest because round 1 was the Magic Weekend in 2011, with crowds up in 2013 over rounds 2,3,4. That isnt an argument. That isnt my position. It is the only possible conclusion to draw from the facts.

I notice you're not so fast letting us know that Widnes-Hull was 500 up on last year, Willie!

goes some way to making up for the 2,917 missing at salford when compared to 2012

Did I say that?

Any thread which has Smokey spitting his dummy out is fine by me and his teeth show no signs of breakage as he chomps all over Bill's posts. This could turn out to be the worlds largest fishing trip ever.

UPDATE...
[uSL Round 5 attendances - comparison to same fixtures last year[/u

Salford V London in 2013 = 2,333
Salford V London in 2012 = 5,250
Percentage drop in attendance = -55.56%

St Helens V Leeds in 2013 = 12,228
St Helens V Leeds in 2012 = 15,199
Percentage drop in attendance = -19.55%

Catalan V Wakefield in 2013 = 7,191
Catalan V Wakefield in 2012 = 8,842
Percentage drop in attendance = -18.67%

Widnes V Hull in 2013 = 5,541
Widnes V Hull in 2012 = 5,008
Percentage increase in attendance = +10.64%

23 out of 31 SL fixtures in 2013 have now registered a fall in attendance compared to the same fixtures between the same teams last year.

Quite.
Or the 2,971 missing at St Helens when compared to 2012.
Or the 1,651 missing at Catalan when compared to 2012.

[uSL Round 5 attendances - comparison to same fixtures last year[/u

Salford V London in 2013 = 2,333
Salford V London in 2012 = 5,250
Percentage drop in attendance = -55.56%

St Helens V Leeds in 2013 = 12,228
St Helens V Leeds in 2012 = 15,199
Percentage drop in attendance = -19.55%

Catalan V Wakefield in 2013 = 7,191
Catalan V Wakefield in 2012 = 8,842
Percentage drop in attendance = -18.67%

Widnes V Hull in 2013 = 5,541
Widnes V Hull in 2012 = 5,008
Percentage increase in attendance = +10.64%

Huddersfield V Bradford in 2013 = 7,616
Huddersfield V Bradford in 2012 = 7,477
Percentage increase in attendance = +1.86%

Hull KR V Warrington in 2013 = 7,446
Hull KR V Warrington in 2012 = 7,661
Percentage drop in attendance = -2.81%

Castleford V Wigan in 2013 = 7,852
Castleford V Wigan in 2012 = 8,156
Percentage drop in attendance = -3.73%

Total Attendance in SL Round 5 = 50,207
Total Attendance same fixtures last year = 57,593
Percentage drop in attendance = -12.82%

5 fixtures out of 7 in Round 5 this year have shown a decrease in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixtures last year.

**********************

Out of 34 SL fixtures played thus far in 2013, 9 out of 34 have shown an increase in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixture last year. 25 out of 34 fixtures have shown a decrease in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixture last year.

The whole comparison of Salford attendances is flawed as most of our crowds were either made up or revised down last season. The London crowd was never 5,250 in 2012.