manchester United's supporter base hails from Essex.....never did them any harm

Evidently it happens in greater numbers than at Wakefield Wildcats given Cas consistently post larger attendances than Wakey despite having a perceived smaller catchment area.

Probably more so than the wildcats, but they were run like a joke for a long time, so its not much of an achievement.

Just guesswork really, I could not be @rsed to find out as I am not into a todger measuring contest like you. If its a lot more than that then it just makes your argument more futile and as silly as you, as I said before the obvious answer does not always seperate the comedian from the clown hth

Todger measured in 2006 was
leeds was 443,247
Cas was 37,525
Wake was 76,886
Bradford was 293,717

I'm frankly amazed that Smokey's 'Glasshoughton isn't in Cas' diversion has been so successful – though saying that, he is good creating and then keeping going the most obscure diversions

if you mean he's good at f**king up an argument,i agree completely.

We all have to have something we are good at

What he is good at is putting lots of big complicated words together in an attempt to sound clever , but it ends up making him look like a politician

Doesn't seem to change his mind as often though...

Yes he does , but like a politician he wont admit he has though , instead he spouts another load of incomprehensible rubbish to explain how he hasn't

:vloiin0v

So even though you recognised that the :vloiin0vCity:vloiin0v of Leeds has an estimated population of 770,800 and the :vloiin0vCity.

Those are you comparisons. Leeds (the former county borough) isn't as big as Manchester (was also smaller than Sheffield), but that isn't classed as the city anymore.

Whats even more amazing is i never said Glasshoughton wasnt in Cas, people just kept taking it upon themselves to tell me it was. Then randomly people decided to get into a debate about the relative size of Leeds to Manchester and Glasgow to argue a point I made about the relative size of Leeds and Cas.

Even now people are arguing which is bigger, Leeds or Greater Manchester, even though the answers are obvious and freely available.

Ill put the questions in bullet points, hopefully people will answer some more random parts of it.

Who are the new fans Cas will target, how will they do so, and why do they expect they will be successful?

When answering the above question, explain why when people argued over a merger, they would never go watch a team without their respective place names in them. I.E Cas fans would never go watch a team not called Cas, yet they are expecting Pontefract and Knottingly and other parts of Wakefield and Leeds to go watch a team called Cas the same goes for Wakefield Fans?

Why did Wakefield fans say they would never go watch a team not in Wakefield, yet wouldnt go watch their team in Glasshoughton which is in Wakefield, and will support the team in Barnsley or Beeston?

Is it all just balls to try and avoid a ground share/merger and they would infact go watch their teams in these places, or is there a valid reason for these contradictions.

Hopefully this will lead to an argument of whether Elland Road is in Beeston or Holbeck!

Simple really , there is a difference between existing fans refusal to watch what they consider their club in a different location and a clubs ability to recruit new fans in a different location

So they wont do what they expect others to do and the rest of the country is expected to do/

Yep , that pretty much sums it up , but then again this is what people have been telling the RFL for years , and on these boards as well , mergers wont work , sharing stadiums wont work , expecting 100 yr old clubs to accept nothing to play for wont work , we like our local clubs and wont just follow who we are told to , we also dont like foreign clubs and soft southerners either , oh and the Welsh as well , thankfully the Jocks and the Paddys havent managed to blag a club between them yet

You've based that comment on no facts and very little knowledge of individual fans supporting Cas haven't you. In fact you do that pretty much most of the time when creating these silly arguments over nothing in particular. The surrounding areas provide lots of supporters for Cas and have done for years. They also supply lots of players to our club, but then you wouldn't know that since you think only people from Cas watch/play for Cas and likewise with every other club. Have you been to Kippax or Garforth. Go to either place and you can see Castleford quite clearly. Many people from these towns actually shop in Castleford, it is their town. You keep suggesting we can't attract fans from places that consider Cas as their own town.

We do also attract fans from further a field as i've stated before. We have them coming from all corners of the country on match day (i'm not talking about ex-Cas locals living elsewhere). I would suggest these are not in large numbers but we do have them as I imagine most clubs have. We've drawn in fans through Sky who have taken us on as their own having watched us battle as the under dog many times, 1999 was a good season for attracting fans from Stoke, Nottingham, Edinburgh and many other none RL places for example. These fans still travel to watch Cas now. They're die hard fans. We also do pick up fans from other neighbouring towns and cities. There's a growing number of fans coming to us from Doncaster and surrounding areas and Places such as Selby have always brought in lots of Cas fans. Personally, I'd suggest a little more work was done by the club bringing a few more of the people from Cas. Those Cas fans who have become disgruntled in the past and now stay away. We need to get those back to really achieve a 10k plus crowd regularly.

The statement from PROBIZ together with other comments from the club, plus the community work the club already does going out to places such as Selby, Garforth and yes Doncaster show me (maybe not you because you seem to want to spout any random garbage, rather than fact) that we're already working on these fans.

Now go pick up on some tiny point in my post that will enable you to divert the attention away from any good points to create an argument that will send the thread way off topic.

Whick ones smokeyTA and which ones Starbug?

But those figures you are quoting (comparing political authorities) means that you are including places like Wetherby as part of Leeds, but exclude places like Trafford from being in Manchester. You define Manchester in terms so narrow that by your measure Manchester United play outside the city.

Still, good news for fans of both Castleford & Wakefield. By this measure, Harlequins are definitely out, as the city of London has only around 11 000 people living it.

Trafford isn't in Manchester. And Manchester United do play outside of the city (hence why they call it "Old Trafford"icon_wink.gif. The local authorities are what have the city-status, so technically Wetherby is in the City of Leeds. If you still consider Leeds to be the former county borough, then it's just a bit smaller than Manchester.

Not that I think official population figures are THAT important when deciding which city is "bigger". here's more to how "big" a city is than how many people live in it. And I'd say the City of Manchester is "bigger" in terms of how will known it is, how many people visit it, etc. And if you compare the area of Leeds to the area of Manchester, there are far more people in Manchester (and if you expand Manchester's borders to the size of Leeds', there are nearly twice as many people in that area (that includes Salford).



It's a good job Harlequins don't play in the City of London then, isn't it. Rather, about 10 miles down the road in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, which has a population of 180,100 in an area half the size of Manchester, and in the surrounding areas there are twice as many people living there than in Leeds and in half the area!

I must admit I do love the population vs attendances debate, mainly for two reasons... you can't have it both ways. I.e. Salford can't say they are a club representing the whole of Greater Manchester & Salford yet then narrow it down when crowds are questioned... same for Quins / Crusaders etc etc. If you want to market yoursleves as the London / Welsh side then your attendances well at least promoting should follow that, surely? Goes for all clubs really

Yes, you can have it both ways as long as you're smart enough understand the differences in the arguments made. Quins are the team for the whole of London and the South East, unfortunately for cost and logistics reasons we cannot effectively market the club to 10m+ people (some would argue we're unable to market effectively to anyone, but that's a nother argument). So whilst there are people like me who will do a 2 hour round trip to watch, it is not feasible to market into my local area and people in my area are not realistically in the catchment, the reaslistic catchment area is probably a couple of hundred thousand people in south west London.

I can see both sides of the arguement.
Its very hard to get a true reflection of city size as some have previously said.
Also you have to consider how small do you go and how far back in time do you go to look at boundries I mean if you go back far enough the likes of Stoneferry, Sutton, Longhill and Drypool where all seperate inhabited areas.
It seems to me that in this arguement you can try and massage the figures to suit yourself as its very hard to get a definitive answer.

At the end of the day, it's all subjective. There's no "right" answer, and if there is then no-one knows it. We can pretend all we like that what we say is right, but all that achieves is making yourself look arrogant and having less people care about your opinion (as good as it might be).

You could name your club after a tiny suburb with only a few thousand people in it and still achieve massive crowds. If it's in the middle of a massive area, and you can market your club to that massive area, then it doesn't matter what it's called. Aston Villa has a stadium with a bigger capacity than the suburb it's named after has people, so they have to be able to pull people in from somewhere else! They attract a bigger crowd than Birmingham City (named after the actual city), so there's an example there of people supporting the "little" place over the "big" place. There's no reason why Cas couldn't attract support from Leeds if Aston Villa can attract more support than Birmingham City. It all depends on how well you can market it.

That's twice we have agreed now.
Will you please stop it NOW