As tedious as this thread is, it's probably the right place to make observations about this Saints squad (who clearly can be stopped) so I'll throw my two penneth in.

One of the things that is helping make them so successful is that they've found a couple of ways to break the rules that are seemingly never going to get penalised any more and it's giving them tiny advantages at least once or twice every set. When they're attacking and their player is tackled they either move forward in the process of getting up, or after playing the ball move forward and engage the first marker - Walmsley in particular does this on practically every carry. When defending they have the standard late man in to slow down the ruck, but there's also a real tendency to get off their man at the back of the ruck and make no attempt to move so that the attacking hooker/acting 9 can access the ball - this happened probably half a dozen times last night, too many times to be chance, they're clearly coached to get up and stand in the way. Combine these factors with their apparent willingness to give away six agains and you've got them being allowed a huge amount of control over the speed of the game that they shouldn't have.

And before the over sensitive Saints fans come charging on, yes, I know all sides have moments when these things happen, it just doesn't seem coached into them, it doesn't seem part of their game plan. Much like when we were all criticising Wigan for trapping arms and cannonballing, just because they happened at other teams didn't mean they weren't a bigger culprit.

Also, I'm not blaming Saints, I'm blaming the authorities, because every single one of those things should be penalised and they've gone too far on the leniency in search of a faster game. If you penalised those things they'd largely stop and you'd still have a faster game.

So yeah, that's that.

On a similar vein, Phil Clark has called out Saints for purposely slowing the ball carrier out over and over again. He notes that Saints would prefer to reset the tackle count in exchange to give the defensive line time to organise themselves. He claims this style of cheating needs to be addressed. I personally think it is just playing to the referee - there is nothing stopping opposition teams doing the same. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/phil-cla ... eld-71287/

On a similar vein, Phil Clark has called out Saints for purposely slowing the ball carrier out over and over again. He notes that Saints would prefer to reset the tackle count in exchange to give the defensive line time to organise themselves. He claims this style of cheating needs to be addressed. I personally think it is just playing to the referee - there is nothing stopping opposition teams doing the same. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/phil-cla ... eld-71287/

Quote ="Leeds_Luke"On a similar vein, Phil Clark has called out Saints for purposely slowing the ball carrier out over and over again. He notes that Saints would prefer to reset the tackle count in exchange to give the defensive line time to organise themselves. He claims this style of cheating needs to be addressed. I personally think it is just playing to the referee - there is nothing stopping opposition teams doing the same. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/phil-cla ... eld-71287/'" Indeed. Hull did it far more blatantly the week before, but Phil didn't mind that as he didn't want us to win that game either. It's a goal of all teams to slow the play down, it goes without saying. There is a valid debate about whether six agains work as they are intended to though. Pretty much all teams now abuse it on the 1st as ensuring a set defensive line to start the set is preferrable to one less tackle. Referees are then very reluctant to give another six again in the same set of six and it's rare that they do. It's also something attacking teams try to play the system on as much as possible too. If you watch the game last night, I lost count of the number of times Peats deliberately ran at markers who weren't set because Huddersfield got a quick play the ball or moved off the mark and then stopped and threw his arms up, in an attempt to con the referee into giving a six again. Ashton Golding even ignored a 4 on 2 overlap to do that and appeal to the referee. Moving off the mark is another thing that winds me up about our game, it sets the markers off square and the defensive line two yards offside and the crowd and attacking team baying for a penalty or six again. Again, all teams do it and the refs rarely ever send them back. It's a sad indictment on Super League really that our coaches and players are this obsessed with playing the system. I watch the NRL this morning and it's genuinely like watching a different sport. Clean play the balls, both teams striving for the win rather than going through the motions like we see over here and competing.

Quote ="Leeds_Luke"On a similar vein, Phil Clark has called out Saints for purposely slowing the ball carrier out over and over again. He notes that Saints would prefer to reset the tackle count in exchange to give the defensive line time to organise themselves. He claims this style of cheating needs to be addressed. I personally think it is just playing to the referee - there is nothing stopping opposition teams doing the same. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/phil-cla ... eld-71287/'" Indeed. Hull did it far more blatantly the week before, but Phil didn't mind that as he didn't want us to win that game either. It's a goal of all teams to slow the play down, it goes without saying. There is a valid debate about whether six agains work as they are intended to though. Pretty much all teams now abuse it on the 1st as ensuring a set defensive line to start the set is preferrable to one less tackle. Referees are then very reluctant to give another six again in the same set of six and it's rare that they do. It's also something attacking teams try to play the system on as much as possible too. If you watch the game last night, I lost count of the number of times Peats deliberately ran at markers who weren't set because Huddersfield got a quick play the ball or moved off the mark and then stopped and threw his arms up, in an attempt to con the referee into giving a six again. Ashton Golding even ignored a 4 on 2 overlap to do that and appeal to the referee. Moving off the mark is another thing that winds me up about our game, it sets the markers off square and the defensive line two yards offside and the crowd and attacking team baying for a penalty or six again. Again, all teams do it and the refs rarely ever send them back. It's a sad indictment on Super League really that our coaches and players are this obsessed with playing the system. I watch the NRL this morning and it's genuinely like watching a different sport. Clean play the balls, both teams striving for the win rather than going through the motions like we see over here and competing.

yeah, that must be it

You regularly criticise Walmsley then do you? He makes more yards between the tackle and the PTB than he does in the actual carry.

It's all down to the officials. NRL refs wouldn't let it slide, thus players have to play a fairer game.

Really we need to tighten up on unsporting play, but that would only cause bigger issues as our officials are not good enough or trained well enough to do so consistently. I'd rather see every player get away with cheating a yard at the play of the ball or slowing the ball carrier, than half getting away with it whilst half get penalised. Sad really.

Consistency is and always has been the problem for me.

Players banned one week and not the next. We all say it's because they play for our team when it happens to us, but really the level of officiating (and as such the review panel) just isn't good enough.

He's 13 foot tall so when he plays the ball and stands upright, he's moved 6 foot, not his fault.

He should get penalised for it in every match I watch saints play, but never, ever does, no doubt because the rfl have got it in for saints.

It's not technically a penalty, they are just sent back to play it from where it should have been from. We got sent back twice against Huddersfield, so it is another thing they hammer us for that they don't apply to other sides.

Ok ok we give in you can be Grand Final, CC Cup and LLS winners this season if it will shut your bleating.

No. You can have them all. They're devalued and we don't want to win them now out of protest. You can have all three.

The RFL pull another charge for a St Helens player out of the hat. Lees charged with being too good for Huddersfield and continues a 9,124 week consecutive run of charges for Saints players. Ikahihifo who committed an identical tackle isn't even mentioned and Ashworth who nearly killed Lomax off the ball gets off too, when it would have been a 2 game ban for any of Saints backrowers. Targeted.

Quote ="Saddened!"The RFL pull another charge for a St Helens player out of the hat. Lees charged with being too good for Huddersfield and continues a 9,124 week consecutive run of charges for Saints players. Ikahihifo who committed an identical tackle isn't even mentioned and Ashworth who nearly killed Lomax off the ball gets off too, when it would have been a 2 game ban for any of Saints backrowers. Targeted.'" I would call Crimestoppers if I where you https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-infor ... s/pre-form And then maybe the Samaritans

Quote ="Saddened!"The RFL pull another charge for a St Helens player out of the hat. Lees charged with being too good for Huddersfield and continues a 9,124 week consecutive run of charges for Saints players. Ikahihifo who committed an identical tackle isn't even mentioned and Ashworth who nearly killed Lomax off the ball gets off too, when it would have been a 2 game ban for any of Saints backrowers. Targeted.'" I would call Crimestoppers if I where you https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-infor ... s/pre-form And then maybe the Samaritans

Quote ="[Gareth"I would call Crimestoppers if I where you https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-infor ... s/pre-form And then maybe the Samaritans'" And after all of them call Jordan Peterson to get more help

Quote ="[Gareth"I would call Crimestoppers if I where you https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-infor ... s/pre-form And then maybe the Samaritans'" And after all of them call Jordan Peterson to get more help

Wow, what a massive baby. I bet this is not how the club and players feel. There have been a few (correct) decisions made against your players and now you don't want to compete at all? Do you only like a playing field heavily weighted in your favour? Maybe you should lobby the club to leave superleague and join the amateur leagues so you can win every year.

Saints are literally in a golden spell, do you really need reminding that you have won it 4 times in a row and recently became world club champions. You are well and truly in the hunt for everything and it's all still to play for, you're still the favourites to win it all IMO. I often like your postings but you need to get a grip and stop behaving like a spoilt brat.

We're joining the NRL anyway, then when we win that we'll be invited to the NFL.

I’m starting to think Rubber Duckie make’s more sense than you.

Worst than that I am beginning to think WarringtonWolve69 makes more sense

Always was a visionary the Duck. He just went 10 years early with the going unbeaten shouts.

I see Paul Wellens has been baited out by the media vultures into shutting down the 'cheating' claims made by Sky's Wigan fan Phil Clarke.

[urlhttps://www.totalrl.com/st-helens-boss-paul-wellens-reacts-to-phil-clarkes-explosive-cheating-comments/[/url

Further evidence of the not-very-well-hidden campaign against Saints by the RFL.

“When you talk about the ruck area with OPTA statistics, in 2021 we had the average slowest play the ball in the competition.

“In 2022, we had the slowest play the ball in the competition and we currently sit joint last. I would ask Phil who is lying on who? With the devastating ball carriers we have, we haven’t come out on top in play the ball speed.”

So the team who has won four trophies in a row has the slowest play the ball speed because the entire league is cheating, not just us. Yet Clarke is allowed to go on Sky and call Saints cheats. Yet Wilkin had to release a press statement and make a grovelling public apology on air because he admitted he didn't know who Wakefield's new coach was.

It's probably also worth someone at the RFL checking if those play the ball speeds are quicker with 6 agains or slower than they were.

Some startling statistics quoted by Wellens there. With the likes of Walmsley, Sironen, Mata'utia, Paasi and Lees demolishing packs all over the place, for Saints to have been allowed the slowest play the balls is frankly ridiculous and even the staunchest anti-Saints fans on here should be able to admit it's wrong. If the RFL would publish the 6 again and penalty stats, I bet we're somehow on the losing end of those too. To face this level of adverse treatment and still be four times champions is something special.

Sky and Phil Clarke need to apologise on Thursday's coverage. His attempts to influence the referees ahead of the derby are a disgrace.

Wellens whinges more as a coach than he did as a player

So true !

He made me laugh when flapping his arms about like demented seagull screeching "but sir,but sir".
I could swear once he was flapping that much he levitated a couple of feet from the ground.

Typical "bell end" wigoon response here from EGG CHASING and JASON65 ignoring the actual independant OPTA stats and facts, surely a Wigoon with half a brain would know its SKY Muppet Phil Clarke who is the original whinging source.