Oh look, no ban...

No evidence either

That's both of us happy then.

touche JB.
I would ask though...if London weren't a condition of the SKY deal, then why in gods name are we still in the comp? seriously.....we are a 1.5 million loss making machine that finish at the wrong end of the table?....and why in gods name when we went bust did the other SL chairmen vote us back in

It's a good question! I can only assume either:
1. Losing London (at the time SL's only true expansion area) would have created massive negative perceptions of the game retreating back to its 100 year old M62 corridor image
2. Sky really do pay more if a London team is in
3. Club chairmen have been led to believe the above by the RFL who see London as long term important to the game
4. They were all drunk at the time and thought it would be a laugh to keep a team in that's weaker than theirs

1. Nah.
2. Quite Possibly
3. More than Probable
4. Spot on...but combined with 2 or/and 3.

So that's 17 pages (plus at least ten years worth of posts) and not one shred of evidence of RFL funding for the London club. Maybe it's time we let this sleeping dog lie and concentrated on what we do know. But just (hopefully) to put it to bed once and for all I would love to know when this period of RFL handouts took place. Previous posts in this thread have accused us of being funded since 1996 - the SL era.

Well in 1996 we were owned by Barry Maranta of the Brisbane Broncos, and previously by the Broncos themselves. That's Brisbane Broncos - the best supported team in Australia and not short of a few bob, or a few extra players who they filled our team with. Maranta then sold to Branson in 1997 - that's Richard Branson - the billionaire who remained our owner until 2001. Surely with such figures involved the last team in SL during these years who needed RFL handouts was London Broncos!

In 2001 Virgin pulled out and the RFL's solution was to relocate the club to Leigh - again hardly throwing money at London RL then. David Hughes stepped in at the last minute and took on the role of bankrolling a loss making club, of which he had previously been a minor shareholder, and trying to make it financially viable. Over the next 4 years the club continued to lose money at an alarming rate and eventually went bust in 2005. Part of the reason for this loss was the Virgin lie that they lkeft the club debt free. They did not.

The club survived in 2005 thanks to the votes of the other clubs. The RFL could have avoided the need for this by giving handouts to London Broncos if they had wished but they did not, and neither did the club ask for such things. Financially the club reformed after David Hughes wrote off a personal debt the club owed him of around £1.5 million. The need for a new owner was pressing though, as Hughes is not a super-rich man, and so Ian Leneghan stepped in and oversaw the club's transition to Harlequins RL. As major shareholder he funded the club for a number of seasons before his home town of Wigan came calling.

What followed was an awkward period where Leneghan was the owner of Quins but unable to provide any funding. Again David Hughes - the Legend - stepped in and oversaw the funding of the club, even though he had no obligation further than his 30% stake at the club. That's part of what last year's big announcement was before the Warrington game, where Hughes wanted to be able to take control of the club again, and required the RFL to make this happen - not financially - just by their rules and regulations in requiring Leneghan to release the claim on his shares. There was another part to this statement about development - that the RFL should take a more pro-active role. Again not by funding but through properly organised development programmes across the capital and the south-east. Rather than leaving it to Quins and Skolars to take on that role. A move which I have to say makes perfect sense.

Now I am of the understanding that in the early 1990s the RFL made extra funds available to the London Crusaders to cover the travel costs that the club had to pay to travel to each away game. This must have amounted to all of a couple of thousand pounds per season!!! So for about 3 seasons the RFL funded us to grand total of less than £10,000. There's your evidence. I'm giving it to you. However as they offer something similar to Championship clubs visiting Toulouse, and possibly to Toulouse themselves to travel over here, I will be able to sleep in my bed at night over such handouts.



So here we are, still struggling, still making losses but with an owner who we know has the club at his heart. The RFL undoubtedly want the London franchise to work and are perhaps more willing to give it more of a chance than they are with clubs from around the M62. That's probably because they do know the value of the London club to the TV deal - far better than anyone on here anyhow. And isn't it interesting that the anti-London brigade seems to stem from clubs not in SL. Those in SL probably know how the land lies.

...f()ck off


We like this persecution complex...we wear it like a badge of honour

But then it's not really a complex is it. It actually exists.

Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean the rest of us are not out to get you.

I'm not paranoid. This thread is 18 pages long!

Indeed

Maximum of 20 Experiment fans at Craven Park (on a Bank Holiday), not good enough GF.

7,139





heartland club my 'arris....Sooner you merge with the better run, profitable, better supported club the better


Jesus....most people feel that Wekefield may be the unlucky team and yet they still get more fans than you

and given this was a real opportunity for your australians to get a win I would have thought you'd have sold out



GF is on a break BTW

Hmm, erm slight problem. 7139 was a hell of a lot more then the 4000+ that the Experiment drew against Cas. I reckon Cas took a lot more to London then Experiment brought here, + I hear that crowd included 2500 freebies, whereas the vast, vast majority of the 7139 at CP paid to get in.

Oh and I also hear that many more people in London were given free tickets but apparantly decided not to use it, now THAT is embarrassing!!

7,139 was the lowest gate of the round for an M62 club...that's not a slight problem...that's a big problem. MERGE

And that tells you no one wants to go to Hull on a bank holiday Monday...

As for your other "facts" care to produce evidence or is it more of your BS?

Why do you feel the need to compare yourselves to Quins constantly ? Is it short man syndrome ? Everyone knows that Quins are not the benchmark for Super League, so, as you like comparisons, lets compare the HKR experiment to other clubs shall we.

Quins away games since 2008


2008 2008 2009 2010 2011 Ave

Wigan 11453 14977 18605 15012
Leeds 14557 13912 12684 14350 13876
Hull FC 13313 12269 15592 13965 13785
Wolves 7444 11678 11506 10209
Bradford 8428 7813 7153 12354 8937
Les Cats 15000 6225 8324 6152 8925
Saints 8533 9359 10399 6050 8585
=#0000BFHull KR 8084 8284 7874 7612 7139 7799
Tigers 6268 7049 5862 6393
Giants 4176 6356 5336 5289
Wakey 5016 5079 4371 5412 4970
Salford 3367 2672 3020
Crusaders 3009 1122 2066


So in reality you could argue that the HKR experiment has failed, or is at least failing, as 1) its hard core support (assumed to be the ones that turn up v Quins) has fallen year on year since 2008 2) its average attendance v Quins in the last 4 years is nothing to write home about compared to the bigger more glamorous clubs 3) its non England qualified playing staff has increased year on year.

The experiment has had 100 years plus to flourish but has failed and I ask the question, isnt it time that Rovers finally bit the bullet and accept they are never going to be as big as Leeds or Wigan or dare I say Hull FC ? If it makes you feel better to comapre yourselves to Quins then fair enough but that just papers over the cracks in the HKR experiment.

Oh, and as one of the 20+ who bothered to turn up, I would like to say how I enjoyed the match, the HKR fans in general were excellent (not the head bangers as the taxi driver suggested) and despite defeat a great day out was had.

Are you being serious?

TWENTY??

Well done to the 20 loyal fans of Quins and thanks for making the big effort to get to the game.

As fro PC plum it was actually our highest crowd against Quins for 3 years despite have the worse team in 3 years. Go figure! Looking at those figures it seems Quins are even more on the nose for most clubs this year than last.

Can we rename Quins 'the London Experiment'? It does sound cool

Hmm, reckon at least 800 or 900 people from Leeds would have been happy to spend their day in Hull yesterday if the fixtures had worked that way.

So Fulcrubronquins did not give away thousands of free tickets for the Cas home game then?

Did they?

I was told (by a friend that I believe and trust) that the Experiment gave away something like 4000 free tickets, but the crowd was only about 4400+ (IIRC), which, as I said earlier, means that a lot of people in the capital were given a free ticket but even that wasn't enough to tempt them there.

Re our crowd yesterday, I guarantee that the following teams would have had less in the exact same scenario: Cas, Wakey, Salford, Crusaders, + clubs like Huddersfield and Catalans would have had a similar crowd to us. Therefore, if we're a failing 'experiment' (a club with our history is anything but an experiment IMO) should be kicked out of SL, then so should all the preceding clubs.

I gave up there