As a sidenote, that meme was [url=https://www.truthorfiction.com/photo-of-a-wolf-pack-explains-wolf-behavior/[uproven false years ago.[/u[/url

As you were.

You owe me a new Irony meter

About time someone put this imbecile out of his misery.

Edited for Accuracy

i was waiting for someone to point this out

Salford is also one of the few cities with a SL team. Something that someone forgot to mention further back in the thread...

It’s also still a relatively small place that wouldn’t class as a city in modern times as it only has a small population.

Yes it’s technically called a city. But let’s not pretend it’s what people think of when they talk about cities.

That’s not a criticism of Salford. It’s just times have changed. It has a similar population to Warrington.

salford 250k slightly ghtly less than Hull 260k (two pro Rl teams)
Warrington 200k. By my reckoning only Leeds, Hull, are bigger towns/cities in super league (excluding Toronto) and only Bradford, London outside of SL (excluding France)

City of Wakefield has 345,000, if you're counting the City of Salford being 250,000 - Both are the Metro areas.

.....what that's you say? Smoke and Mirrors you say? Nothing like that going on at the Wolfpack......move along, nothing to see here

They are only the "bigger teams" because they are successful and all 12 clubs can't be successful. We can call Salford out but they were getting crowds up to 10,000 when they were owned by Brian Snape and Watkins, Richards and Fielding were scoring 90 tries a season between them, and we can call Wakey out but watch "This sporting life" to see 28,000 people packed into Belle Vue at a time Wakey won the challenge cup three times in four years.

We suffer from a lack of rich owners, and a TV deal that doesn't fully cover the costs of being a professional game. What TWP bring to the game here is a mega rich owner. That's all.

Had Mr. Argyle been a massive Trinity fan I can tell you you would not be calling Wakey a small club. The two Brians talk rubbish because they are paid to do so, but the problem with us letting one rich owner buy in a World class X111 from around the globe all on half a ££Million a year is that it would kill the game here. That "kind of" dominance (albeit nowhere near what the Brains trust suggest) we saw in the 1990's from Wigan, was killing the game not making the sporting world sit up and take notice - Crowds dropped badly in those years..

So I don't buy your "bigger teams" argument with the utmost respect to you - many people see it your way - it's far far more subtle than that.

With all due respect to Wigan, and they are undeniably a huge RL club far bigger than my own, I'm not disputing that, I see the achievements of Leeds 2004 - 2017 as far greater sporting success than what Wigan did 25-30 years ago. Doing it in a salary cap era is a lot tougher than doing it when you have a budget that dwarfs everyone else's without exception. Look at the Premier League where mid sized clubs Chelsea and Man City suddenly came across winning lottery tickets and lo and behold won far more in a few years than they had in over a century previously. Their trophies are meaningless in the eyes of anyone out with their own fanbases. PSG have killed the French league after a similar takeover. Football can cope because of it's huge global popularity, but if Toronto were allowed to do a Man City then Super League would be dead in five years as everyone here just thinks, "forget it".

Very well put, sir.






Many, many clubs have been Champions at some point in time but, too many people would cast them aside and dismiss all of the games history.
some of the once great clubs have fallen by the wayside and some will never rise again.
Those in charge, of the game and of individual clubs are only custodians for a relatively short time and all of these people should be trying to leave their clubs and the sport in better condition than where it was when they became involved.

We should be trying to enrich the game and spread the gospel to others but, alas, it's all down to who has the deepest pockets and sod the rest.

Unfortunately, it seems to be the way of the world these days.

how can anyone argue with that post well said

You’ve basically gone on a massive rant about things that happened 50 years ago. I will help you out. It’s now 2019 and both Salford and Wakefield have about 4000 fans between them whilst Toronto have 9000. Thats why they bring more to the game

And the fact Toronto weren’t even in existence 50 years ago when you were still getting less crowds than Toronto get now is utterly embarrassing for your clubs

You are really boring, why don't you move there ?

Salford & Wakey don't give away free tickets like Toronto do, maybe they should.

To be clear here, Toronto have more fans at games than a great many English based clubs, but they bring "nothing" to the game, other than a few thousand home fans, many of whom are there FOC and who wouldn't know a 40-20 from a Touch Down.......No TV deal, No attempt at Player development, little interest in their local media and they've just signed a player from relegated London Broncos to steer their team around the park.....what with Jimmy steering the team and money bill offloading twice a game, Old trafford is bolted on next year


Go find Jean and ask him why argyle hasn't signed a big name Aussie half, but instead a bloke from the relegated side who couldn't get into the Hull side?

Sorry Steph, I know it's exciting to have new clubs, and especially clubs from abroad and even more so clubs that may bring a couple of World class stars into the game, and clubs that give us all a chance to go to the other side of the world to watch Rugby league.

You may talk about 50 years ago Steph, but Salford took a lot of fans to Leeds and wigan and beat them there, and they went to the Grand final with na big following. That wasn't 50 years ago and if only Marwan Koukash had stuck with them they would be big time again now. Although it was a few years ago when Wakefield had to beat Cas to stay up, the Wakefield public packed Belle Vue out, I think there were 11,000 there Steph, I got a ticket to go and there weren't many Cas fans.

I don't blame TWP for giving away many tickets as they don't need the money, they need the interest. The Beer Festivals help as well and 9,000 is very impressive but I have been around a bit and for me the problem with TWP's support is it won't come here. I don't agree that clubs should only rely on home support - customers are customers for me - and it's a big business advantage to have all our big clubs along one motorway.

What do you hope for for the game Steph? TWP have replaced London, maybe Ottawa and New York will replace Wakefield and Salford and then Montreal replace HKR? I know you find the Transatlantic idea attractive - fair enough - but I think the bulk of fans here don't want it - call them parochial but that seems to be the way it is. I think we'd lose thousands to the game going this way not just fans on the terraces but people in the amateur game??

Steph - Do you think people in RL towns here and their local benefactors will stand losing their clubs status and players to manufactured clubs in America? I think they will walk away?

I'd be greatly surprised if the TWP experiment doesn't fail. Transatlantic sports are not the norm for a reason, and a couple of NFL games in London don't really count before someone chooses to be anal. I know Toronto see themselves as a brand, but that really relies on the sport in question being a massively supported global phenomenon. They're trying to create a brand in a sport that struggles to gain attention in the country that it was created in! Having a benefactor is a great thing, but they are a finite resource as well. You're only ever one downturn or financial crisis away from a benefactor getting bored and moving on.

They are an oddity. An interesting addition. But those that are saying that they are somehow the future may be disappointed. I'll certainly enjoy the time they are with us, but certain people need to curb their over-hysterical excitement and take a few breaths.

Excellent post. Us English supporters generally take a few hundred spectators to Catalan, Toulouse & Toronto, but the favour

doesn't get returned by those clubs.

Wakefield used to do (and offer very cheap season tickets) and as far as attendances go, it worked.
Sadly, it was the road to ruin and despite the derision of some of the troll collective on here, the lower (but correct) attendances, all paying to watch the game, has proved better all round - maybe Toronto will start doing the same, when they have been around a bit longer.

They (Toronto) have to last for 50 years + before we can make any real comparison

I can only think if the jaguares from argentina, and toronto wolfpack from manchester