Thats the beauty of opinions. Everyones is different. Would I swap Saints pack with anyone elses. Lol no chance. Would I swap our half backs and backs? In a heart beat. if it makes you feel any better and satisfies your bruised ego, I would love to swap Saints backs with those of Leeds. Feel better now?

Kind Regards

King James

Like you said everyone has an opinion, you shouldn't be so sensitive and upset when someone has a differing view on the 'All Mighty Saints Pack'. Will you wipe away those tears if I say they're the best thing since sliced bread and other packs aren't worthy of sharing the field with them?

loads better than say the like of Ellis, Minichello, Pritchard, Watts, Taylor, Manu and Houghton?

Average age of 29

i said on the leeds board not so long ago, Brian McDermott has achieved something amazing last year. Not only in winning the treble, but winning the treble when Sinfield wasnt our main half and Peacock wasnt our most important forward.

The side that won in 2012 was incredibly reliant on Peacock and Sinfield, We had a make shift back line with a fringe player like bjb and Ablett filling in at centre, Hardaker was just coming through and started the year 2nd to an ageing brent webb, the pack was filled with fodder like Bailey, Kirke, Griffin, McShane, Hauraki, Moore, and the likes of Stevie Ward and Singleton were getting their first tastes.

Peacock and Sinfield were amazing that year, and dragged us to a title and had we lost them then, we would see the massive drop off people expect of us next year. Take Sinfield and Peacock out of our 2012/2013 squad and not making the 8 would be a serious possibility.

But 2015 was different, McGuire was our dominant half all year whether playing with Sinfield or Sutcliffe. Cuthbertsons addition completely changed the way we played and he became our most important forward, getting us so much front foot ball some Leeds fans were mistaking Paul Aiton for the second coming of Benny Elias. We have the best back line in Super league in my opinion, I wouldnt swap Watkins, Hardaker, or Hall for any centre, fullback on winger in the league, and the improvement you would get from swapping Moon or Briscoe for say, McGilvery would be negligible. McGuire is having something of an indian summer and at 33 has swapped from a speedy try scoring stand off to one of the most intelligent and creative scrum halves in SL, Sutcliffe is an outstanding prospect who up to the middle of the year was keeping Sinfield out on merit.

The pack is interesting because whilst Peacock (and kylie) would be a huge loss to any side, we are far more balanced. We are no longer a front row of a super human JP, 15 mins from Kylie and a succession of warm bodies doing a job. Cuthbertson fits perfectly in at Leeds, Galloway is a proven talent, Singleton has really grown in to his role, Garbutt gobbled up metres last year, and Mullally is a decent young prop who can contribute.

Add to that the continued development of Stevie Ward who was in my opinion, far and away our best back rower last year and had it not been for his injury should have played for England, some bit part players who would probably be first teamers at a lot of other clubs like Keinhorst and Walters, and prospects with a bit more experience like Handley, Golding and Lilley as well as a couple of players im really excited to see get a few SL minutes this year in Baldwinson who excelled at Fev last year and maybe some for Cam Smith who is a huge prospect.

That doesn't make it not a good pack though, and Ellis is the only one who's injury record gives any cause for concern.

I don't see it being much of an issue tbh. Certainly not this season, but we will have to start doing a bit of future planning. Taylor and Watts can hopefully be our front row for years, along with Houghton, Manu is also the right side of 30. Then you've got Abdull who wasn't mentioned in that post. Green and Bowden are still young (both need to really kick on and prove they are more than just average squad players though), Hadley and Thompson are well established now. Then you've got a bunch of guys who came in and impressed at the back end of last year. Turgut, Matongo, Downs, Fash. There's plenty in the pack to build around.

Hull FC's problems have not been about squad quality for years now as they have always had a very talented squad "ON PAPER" each season
IMO the club is heading in the right direction finally in creating a better culture within the club for these talented players to work in each day and to adhere to should they wish to move to be trophy contenders in the near future
Pearson has been "All wind and p155" with his promises each season whilst he has been in charge but i believe that he has finally realised that his clubs problems are not always down to squad ability and each individual players playing capabilities alone

It's a very big year for Radford IMO as he surely needs to deliver the goods after some very good squad investment during his tenure at the club with now't to show for it

Hull FC will finish between 5th to 9th IMO in 2016 and i can foresee a change of head coach for 2017

Hull will not do anything but underperform until they get a decent coach.

This is certainly his make or break year, he improved last year and I hope he can improve further as a coach this year, I suppose I bit like Mcdermott did.

We have a decent set of fixtures until Easter, so if we aren't around the top 4, by then, I'd expect him to be sacked.

I would agree with this. IMO both Catalans and Hull have decent squads more than capable of making the top 4 but won't do so with their current coaching regime.

Bear in mind McDermott cut his coaching teeth down in London before he took the reins at Leeds where he certainly oversaw some dodgy regular season performances before (arguably) being hauled out of the mire by a very good side. He's undoubtedly a good coach now but it still took more time than Radford's had thus far.

Bit ironic that it was a post from a Saints fan that set off this thread twist when the jury's still out re whether KC will hack it as a coach.

Think quite a lot of coaches are under pressure. Both at Hull and Catalans obviously been mentioned. Tony Smith I think needs to bounce back after last year at Wire. Grumbles at Saints about Cunningham's style on the team. Wane has come up short 3 out of his 4 seasons and potless the last two. Even Anderson at the Giants, looked to be taking them closer by winning the LLS and being more competitive vs the big buys in knockout games but took a big backwards step last year and saved their worst for their CC and playoff exits. At HKR, with them making the cup final last year and bringing Peacock on board then if Chester doesn't get them into the Top 8 he could be on shakey ground and has Betts taken Widnes as far as he can?

Hull remind me of Tottenham in a way. A decent team on paper just need a style of play to fit them all. Spurs are getting it now they've got the right coach, Hull haven't yet.

hulls problem is depth. Its why almost all 'challenger' clubs fall away.

Leeds lose Hardaker for a game and they can replace him with Ashton Golding, Briscoe is out for a few months and they can put in handley, leeds have the likes of Keinhorst, Walters, Achurch, Mullally who probably wont get in the first choice 17, potential stars like Lilley, Cam Smith, Jordan Baldwinson looking for game time.

Saints and Wigan are the same, Wigan not only have a George Williams to step up, but a Ryan Hampshire going to Cas on loan too.

They all have a fantastic first 17, another 5 or 6 of the best players in SL, and another 5 or 6 of the best prospects and proven SL quality players. Other clubs just dont have that, they have a first 17 who can compete, but they lose 2 or 3 important players, 2 or 3 first teamers and it all falls apart.

I would agree with you that its been an issue in the past, but it is precisely in this area that I feel we have made the biggest strides. Its no secret that to compete properly you need good youth players pushing through, those players you mention above are not veterans by any means, they are all young talents.

These are some players that will most likely not be first choice for Hull:

Yeaman, Whiting, Michaels, Lee Smith (?), Feka, Thompson, Naughton, Hadley, Green, Bowden.

Those might not be world beaters but they are all established players with plenty of Superleague rugby under their belt who you know will come in and do a solid job. Then there is a wave of very talented young players in just about every position. I think we are better placed to handle an injury crisis (it seems almost inevitable where Hull are concerned) than we have been for quite a while.

The one position of concern is hooker. It looks like Washbrook is our back up hooker, which is fine if Houghton stays fit. If he is out for a while though we are either playing someone out of position or going to Jez Litten, who is very talented but also only 17.

If both Houghton and Washbrook are options for hooker you'll be lucky to get 7th.

Yet finished last season 7th with just Houghton.

With a better 13 and squad we should be looking at improving on last years finish (Although plenty of other clubs will be thinking that)

The problem Hull and others around that part of the table seemed to be the view of just making sure you're in the 8 after 23 rounds. Whilst that worked for them it left them too far adrift when the Super 8's started.

The lesson to be learnt is, don't target 6th-8th spot after 23 rounds. Target the top 4 after 23 rounds and that'll put you in position to challenge in the 8's. Of course it'll be tough for those teams to make that jump up into the top 4 but it's sport, it should be tough to get up to the top.

That's another thing to bear in mind with Hull. Last season our start pretty much dictated that just making the 8 was our season objective. Don't forget that after 8 games we had 4 points and many fans were already resigned to playing middle 8 rugby.

We then amassed 18 points in the next 14 games (one more than Leeds, level with Hudds and Saints and only two less than Wigan) by which time we were effectively putting out a reserve team (I believe 3 kids actually made their debuts in the 8's) and didn't realistically have a chance of making up the ground to the top 4. But we remained competitive in every game.

It'll be interesting, that's for sure. Frayssinous has to be on dodgy ground and I can only see Catalans being continually undermined by their away form. Whether any coach could find a remedy is a moot point. Smith I have no worries about and I fancy wire for a good year. Neither will saints be far off - when are they ever? Ditto Wane; I think both he and KC are safe. I could see Hudds going backwards due to disruption and a slight waning of the likes of Brough and Crabtree but can you imagine Davy getting shut of Anderson?. HKR are, you'd imagine, taking a long term view with the appointment of Peacock and I don't see them ditching Chester before the year's out. I reckon Betts could well be safe too as I don't think Widnes hold unrealistic expectations or ambitions. Perhaps even Koukash will show more patience than he has in the past if things don't go their way. And I see less likelihood of Radford getting the boot than I did a year ago.

My predictions are invariably rubbish so who knows? Maybe they'll all get chapped.

As a wtw fan, 2016 is a year of progression not perfection. Considering last years woeful performances and SL uncertainty we have been quite astute in the transfer market. Ben Jones Bishop, Arona & Tupou are good signings and hopefully they will add strength. A club in our position has to also sign unwanted players, gambles and potentials and then attempt to turn them into effective members of the team. We have signed a few of those none more than Sean Morris, a university graduate coming from London. Whether he makes it or not his attitude and training ethic has been first class and with a coach like B Smith he can only improve.

Liam Finn is the type of player we need. We've lacked a decent kicking game and has already got his first m.o.m. Danny Kirmond will hopefully be like a new player having had time out to sort out his injury problems. His presence is huge.

The million dollar question is where will we finish. Pundits and other clubs fans will probably say bottom which I can understand. We are aiming for top 8 & so we should. Anyone's capable of that should they perform consistently. Fans will be happy with an improvement on last seasons performances and not being in the million pound game. Fitness and attitude for me is the two biggest aspects in any sport and we seem to have improved in these areas. I honestly couldn't predict a finish, so just hope for an entertaining season. The chairman has done a fantastic job slowly steering the club in the right direction, securing Brian Smith and putting together a competitive squad despite last season.

Our team will probably be something like... (Not first game due to injuries)


1 BJB
2 Tom Johnstone
3 Bill Tupuo
4 Ashley Gibson/Arundel/Walton/Lynne
5 Richard Owen
6 Jacob Miller
7 Liam Finn
8 Nick Scruton
9 Mikey Sio
10 Anthony England
11 Mikael Simone
12 Danny Kirmond
13 Anthony Tupuo

14-17 (4 from) Arona, Scott Moore, Jon Molloy, Scott Anderson, Anthony Walker, Matt Ashurst, Craig Hall, Chris Annakin, Andy Yates, Sean Morris, Stuart Howarth, Jordan Crowther, Max Jowitt, Jordan Tansey, Ben Shulver, Joe Arundel, Reece Lynn, Jason Walton.

Good Luck to all clubs! Here's to a fantastic SL 2016

Catalans Dragons

Too many changes in personnel for us to be a factor in the super 8s.

I reckon we will get in the eight again, but whereabouts depends on our away record.

We have some pretty decent signings through the in door, but whether the likes of Richards and Taylor are past their best is open to debate.

It will be fascinating to see how we go.

I'd say Salford's chances have just taken a pretty big hit - Daniel Vidot out for half of the SEASON after needing surgery.

The Wire

From an optimistic point of view I think we've made some good signings- Gidley will bring the experience and guidance we've been missing and was mom in the friendly v Widnes in his first game, not to mention his potential partnership with Sandow. I'm looking forward to seeing Tom Lineham as well in our back division.
Mitchell Dodds could really add some quality to our props and always made the Broncos first 17 ahead of
Garbutt for Leeds who has already made an impact in SL. Jack Hughes and Westerman will add quality and potential to our back three with Currie still improving.
Overall I think a lot will depend on how quickly our players gel but potentially we have a good looking squad with strength in depth.
Ones to watch:-
Sandow Gidley hb partnership.
A potential front 3 of Hill, Dodds and a settled in Daryl Clark.
Improving Matty Russell at fb
The long term potential back 3 of Hughes, Currie and Westerman.
Current stock of Westwood, Simms, Ratchford, Penny with improving newbies in Dwyer, Patten and Johnson.

Teams to fear-
Wigan- were close last year and with the addition of Tompkins and further improvement of Williams with a Shawn Wayne charged pack will be there and there abouts.
Leeds- will miss the consistency and leadership of Peacock and Sinfield but still have the best back line and quality forwards.
Saints-always hang around like a bad smell and I see no different this year.
Hudds- will be challenging top 4 again with Mcgilvery, Brough etc but how much will they miss Ferres?- I think they'll be fine.
Hull- have a great pack if they all stay fit but never know whether they'll blow hot or cold.
Catalans- great squad on paper, it's just the away form.
Cas- will be in top 8.
Others to fill in the other places.

Can't wait for the start of the season and good look everyone.

[uLeigh Centurions[/u
To decide how we'll do next year you have to try to workout what went so disastrously wrong in the Qualifiers, we played some brilliant rugby in The Championship but some awful stuff in the Qualifiers. In my opinion there was two main things that went wrong.

1.We underestimated how important momentum is against SL teams. Defence hadn't been our strongest point all season but if you let a Championship team score against you you'll get the ball back & get anther go; if a SL team scores against you they'll keep you pined down on your try line until they score again. Hopefully we've learnt from that & the more experienced players brought in will also help. Coupled with how our forwards have strengthened hopefully this issue will have been solved. Would still like to see us make a big effort to stop Championship teams scoring against us even if we've already got the game won.

2. I think heads went. In the space of 3 weeks we went from being league winners for the 2nd year in a row, having only lost once all season for the 2nd year in a row and being hot favourites for promotion. 3 weeks later we'd lost against Hull KR after a big lead at half time, been well and truly trounced by Salford who we'd have expected to be a close game and lost by 1 point to Wakefield, coupled with Bradford's win against Salford we suddenly for the 1st time in 2 years were underdogs with it all to do & I don't think the players could cope mentally. Coupled with a string of injures you could see that the players' minds and bodies had gone. Hopefully having been through it this year they'll be ready for it next, as they say you have to lose a cup final to win one the same thing may apply. Also the experience of the players brought in should also help.

I understand what many people are saying about the players we've brought in not doing much but causing trouble at Salford. Well Salford finished 3rd in The Qualifiers which will do for me. Also Paul Rowley has long said that the most important thing for a coach to do is to make sure his players are happy, if they're not happy they won't be playing their best. We've got a good history of looking after players at Leigh, there always seems to be a good comradery between players when you hear them speak or see behind the scenes videos. Much as many people don't like him it's clear Derek Beaumont looks after his players. Compare that to Salford where Koukash publically blames individual players when things go wrong and there's clearly something wrong with player welfare at Salford with so many players demanding to leave with such bad feeling for the club last season. I'm confident we'll see a better side to these players than Salford did as they'll be looked after a lot better.

I do think everything about Leigh Centurions is Super League Quality. If it's a higher quality than any of the bottom 4 SL teams and if we can prove that on the field which is the only place it matters, we'll have to wait and see. A lot could happen between now & the Super 8s starting so no real predictions on that but I do think we'll finish top of The Championship again, think we've strengthened with SL quality players while Bradford have only consolidated with top level Championship players, not sure anyone else has strengthened enough to catch that top 2.