Just perusing t'other forum and spotted a good point, had we had 1 up 1 down then quite possibly Wakey could have imploded weeks ago, yes they still might drop out of SL but have been at least been able to fight to the end

As for top 8/4 the system doesn't need to chance - clubs approach to it does

Leeds seem always to know just how to maximise efficiency in the table, being well placed in previous years to the playoffs and now this year knowing top spot had most benefit, only slightly dented by winning the CC but still able to claim top

This season was always a case of finish high as possible after 23 rounds, some clubs deciding being in the top 8 was ok, and are adrift now

Cas and Wire weren't up to top 4 this season, I'm sure next will be different

Super structure

Next years gonna be even better

That is a point I had thought about before. Like last year, Hull have had nothing to play for at the back end of the season (we missed out on the top

. However, it didn't seem as bad this year as we had at least achieved something by being in the right side of the split. Last year just felt like a disappointment all round.

If we continue in mid table, then it will become a drag, but we know now what we need to do to get it the top four and that's play better all year, not just hope it comes together at the end of the season. Teams will learn and evolve as the structure ages.

The top 8's have seen 230,888 fans at 24 games averaging 9,620 a game, 8% down on those home clubs average and 9% down on comparable fixtures earlier in the season. 3rd games don't seem to be as attractive as Blake Solly thought!

The Middle 8's have seen 100,254 fans attend 24 games averaging 4,386 a game which is 5% UP against the seasons averages. Where there was a comparable fixture there is a 3% drop in attendances. Where a SL side has visited a Champ side the attendances have been 26% UP on seasons averages and the drop is 10% when a Champ side visits a SL one.

The Bottom 8 has seen 23,230 fans attend 28 matches at 830 a game, which is a disappointing 30% down on the seasons averages and 15% down on the corresponding fixtures

Overall crowds are down against both seasons averages and comparable fixtures where available by 11% which is disappointing given that these games are now pre-paid in many cases.

The "new" fixtures in the middle 8 are the saving grace of this system, where fans have shown that they will turn out to see unique fixtures rather than a third meeting between teams, but something needs to be done to get the SL and lower Championship clubs fans more engaged.

Those are the figures to work with so far. It's hard to say that it's because of them being third fixtures though. Are fans not used to the new system yet? Is marketing poor? Has having more games on TV not helped?

The uniqueness element is a good point and why I would like to see us work towards a new competition to move on to (a step up in the World Series) but that won't happen.

The worry for me is the apathy at the bottom! The fans of these 8 clubs had 3 or 4 more chances to see their teams play RL before the Winter break, but they chose not to attend. These bottom 8 will get less funding again next year and there's a fair chance that the surviving 6 and the 2 new teams may well make up the bottom 8 again. Same for SL. The top 8 could well be very similar (as it has been for 4 seasons now), meaning the only real excitement is the middle 8's.....and if Bradford get hammered by Wakefield in a couple of weeks, then the concept is off to a pretty bad start.

Recycling the same fans is what the RFL are up to here and that's not a long term strategy that will deliver.

Ahhh their is someone with single season figures, what a surprise.

Answer honestly, do you think the RFL introducing a new system is going to magically get the crowds up or are fans going to have to see it in action first?

They drove them away, you don't get them back with a click of the fingers and a tag line......it takes time (especially when most doubted this system post kick off). If in 3 years time the crowds are dropping and dropping then fair enough.

Also as I always say take each club individually. Warrington for example, were their crowds up in 2011 because of the structure or because they were playing great rugby? Similarly have they dropped because of the structure or because of their poor on field play?

If they were playing the way they did in 2011 then I'd hazard a guess that their crowds would be up on what they've been this year.

What figures would you use?
How about the number of sold out SL games this year?
The Bottom 8 are an afterthought, the top 8 are the same as they have been for the last 4 or so years and the scramble in the middle is hardly gripping the nation.....after the RFL gave this the "big i am" at the seasons KO they have gone pretty quiet on the PR front of late.
I'd suspect that they've not had the response they expected from fans and as I say, all they've done is milk the same supporters.

So you'd rather we kept the previous system and see Wakefield and Salford get hammered for another 7 weeks? Also Leigh and Bradford stroll along for another 7 weeks......all for nothing?

You are too whingey and obsessed with the sound bites that the RFL put out....us grown ups take them at face value and realise they are just sound bites.

1. Yes...licencing would have worked if managed properly
2. I care little for soundbites......but you seem happy to be fleeced for more cash which the rfl will claim as progress whilst not adding one new fan......the game will not progress under this system

Licensing didnt work. Clubs still went bust, English talent hasn't grown in numbers, the comp wasn't more even, the games wealth dint grow to support a grown in clubs at top level.

Who knows if this system will be better?

Licencing did work
English talent grew spectacularly (see the thread on England wingers)
The comp was way more even - even if the same clubs kept winning it


Just saying

I like the new system, regardless of the crowds it draws. The (admittedly small) sample of fans I've spoken to about it have been unanimous in their approval. It seems to find favour with the majority on here too. Strange then that crowds should be lower than in the comparable earlier-season fixtures. Perhaps it's simply that the system is an alien one to the British sporting public and that its popularity will increase as more fans come to terms with it.
A previous poster (Gutterfax?) made the point that the RFL was milking the fans. I think his/her point is relevant but I'd suggest that if the fans being milked are enjoying the new system more than the old then that's no bad thing. New fans welcome as ever, of course. I think the early signs are positive.

I've noticed, at least in my opinion, that there are more things to get excited about in this new system, for example just because a team might not get promoted doesn't mean that there isn't any excitement in the middle 8s. I think its exciting to see teams secure their super league status again, seeing Salford doing so yesterday. Obviously it would be more satisfying to see a promotion but like I say, still satisfying to see teams secure status, almost like a promotion in itself. Perhaps we should see the middle 8s as a totally new league when the split happens.

Changing the structure doesn't improve the quality of the product. Improving the quality of the teams involved in the structure is what will improve the product.

Speaking as a warrington Fan, the only thing i might possibly change is allowing all teams in the super 8's to have a home game within the first two weeks.

Aside from the two leeds games, we've been bobbins this year, its been all our own fault, however at the end of the initial rounds we picked up a bit of form and we could see what we needed to do to try and snatch fourth, it was a long shot, but we thought we could do it, got beat away at leeds and then towelled away by Cas and then 4th was a near impossiblity needing other results to go our way and a few snookers, but we still had our three home matches to try and plug. Aside from the formalities, our season was over. And i know several season ticket holders who haven't gone to the three home games as in there view, there was no longer any point.

It's all our own fault, not disputing that, but it would be fairer attendance wise to alternate those first two weeks.

Since attendances are being spoken of...

Saints need a crowd of 10717 vs Warrington to match the overall average attendence of last year (11540) over the 18 home games this year compared to the 15 last year.

A higher average over more games is good, regardless of which way you spin it.

So you keep saying, but somehow I suspect that if you could locate these elusive 'missing fans' and interrogate, them, I doubt many would say, I've stopped going cos I can't watch Brett Kenny or Peter Sterling (or Sam Tomkins, for that matter).

I dare say a higher proportion would mention Thursday/Friday fixtures as a factor.

I very much doubted before the season started that this system would be to doom and gloom that some predicted.
I'm a little surprised that the top of the table fixtures have not attracted more than the regular season.
For me the only bit I would alter if I had the power would be the Magic Weekend.

Having an uneven fixture list prior to the split and then having an odd number of fixtures just does not sit well with me. It maybe just a symetry thing, but I'd like the magic weekend to be the opening weekend for the Super 8's.

There is some scheduling around the CC too to compress it more towards May. I know some did not like it as an early season competition, but for me it would work better as a mid-season break for some teams, a better PR for the BBC to sell free to air games if it was put in a closer run of weeks.

But overall I'm fine with the structure, it was not overly complex and whilst I'm surprised that Leigh did not turn over some SL teams at the end of the year, like they did mid-season, it's seems to have provided that bridge between SL and championship.
I'd be fine with a narrowing of the salary cap, if the Championship clubs could afford it, but that comes down to finance. If the middle 8's start boosting their attendances in coming years, then maybe that gap can be narrowed more over time. But it was never going to happen on day one, without some clubs over reaching their finances.

You're probably right regarding attendances.

I think it's more to do with this structure being new than anything else. If you look at most initiatives that have been introduced in the past attendances have always been poor the first few years. Personally, although I didn't agree with this structure I hope they stick with it, and give it sometime to grow.

Agree with bewareshadows.

I think the cup would benefit from being earlier in the season. And I'd make it so that the rounds run every 3rd week. So you'd have a Cup game followed by 2 SL games, then another cup game etc.
That should mean the entire thing is closer together but still gives clubs a bit of time to sell their fixtures.
I'd also put the SL clubs in earlier rounds of the Cup.

Agree on the Magic Weekend. Move it to first week of the 8's and involve both Super and Middle 8's.

Level salary cap would be my only tweak let the middle 8 qualifies spend the same,loved every game Leigh have been involved in great to be involved in a higher intensity of game

The cup being played earlier nearly killed it off

It's best where it is now and makes it a tough achievement to win both cup and minor premiers

The fact that Catalan have had such a big say in the top four proves the system is flawed.

Why? Cas have drastically altered the dynamic of the top 4 in the last few weeks (and could so again this week) but that's fine?