Yeah, why is Hayne's better?

Why is Haynes better than a 20 year old who's had limited experience, due to his age, in how to expertly understand how his body and mind work together in the multitude of situations that he'll experience as he reaches higher standards of sport?

If you understand it then I'm puzzled as to why you're asking that question.

But the post didn't say anything like that at all! It explained in a very reasoned way why the poster thinks Hayne personally falls short of qualities required to be an NFL starter in specified roles. It never made any wider point such as you invent at all, but then again there is no doubt whatsoever that among NFL rosters there are very many athletes bigger, faster, more agile, more explosive and more powerful than Hayne.


To suggest he may have a role in special teams in the NFL is hardly "writing him off", though, now is it?


What is it you are saying? That you think Hayne will be a starter in the NFL? Just state your point, instead of waffling on about EQ or whatever.

He falls short only in his experience and understanding of playing the game, that's a universal given. Therefore, that aside, all that's left to physically compare is athletic ability, size, weight, speed, agility, quickness, power and explosiveness.

When comparing Hayne with other 'Trial Camp' hopefuls in those categories he measures up favourably, of course they'll be some who outgun him in certain areas but therll be more who don't.

What comes next is his experience of living and working in high intensity environments such as NRL matches, SoO and Test Matches. Forget the sport, the demands Physicaly and Psychologically are very similar and coping with those demands are an acquired skill which a 20/21 year old won't have developed to the same extent that Hayne has.

Understanding how your body reacts and responds to the demands is another acquired skill which matures through experience and evolves right up to the day you retire. In that sense Hayne has years more development than some of his peers will have.

The EQ factor is massive in elite sport, nowhere more so than the NFL! Some players have great Emotional Intelligence and it is as big of an advantage as is athleticism. Some players have poor Emotional Intelligence and they will struggle to ever reach their full potential because of it, that's not to say they won't be great players just not as good as their athletic potential might have suggested.

Everything about Hayne suggests that his EQ is very very high, add to that the fact that he has had a number of years to develop that EQ within an Elite environment and the conclusion has to be that it gives him an advantage over most, not everyone but most.

I know he's got a huge challenge ahead of him, I'm not contesting that view. I know that because of his late start in the game he'll never have the time served in the game to play certain positions, im not contesting that view either.

What I'm contesting is the assertion that as an athlete he will somehow be inadequate, outmatched and under developed when compared with other Trial Camp hopefuls. I beleive his development to date, both Physicaly, Psychologically and emotionally will offer him an advantage in those disciplines.

I've seen nothing from Hayne that makes him any better in this context than any other top NRL player.

What makes you think Hayne expertly understands how his body and mind work together? Unless you've coached him for a decent period of time in the last year or 2 then you're in no real position to adequately assess him either way.
Not to mention the fact that just because he's an elite sportsman in one sport that doesn't necessarily immediately transfer to another sport in very different situations and a very different context.

You're also ignoring the size, standard and pressures of college football. The top 25 colleges bring in a revenue (from football only) of $1.2bn (£750m). That's roughly 5-6 times bigger than the NRL clubs and that's only the top 25. Oh and they play in front of average crowds of 45,000.

I read with interest your detailed post and it is just a pity you didn't respond to the Op with that instead of bagging that reasoned view as "claptrap".

I think your summary though is in danger of being a straw man. I don't think anyone is calling him "inadequate"; and he IS "underdeveloped" in many major areas, the biggest by far is failing to have many long and hard years of experience of how to play American football. That is the issue. If he was bigger, stronger or faster than any other player then that would counter his total lack of experience but he isn't. Please don't think that means he's the worst, because he won't be that either. It's just that he'd need to be better than any other of the elite NFL players who have spent years working in that sport to reach that level, to displace the best of all those as a starter.

I think you massively overplay your "EQ" point. Hayne has many fine attributes that combine to make him one mean RL player and had he been raised in the USA and worked his way through college ranks he may well have developed into a fine NFL player but that's not the issue now.
Teh issue is whether he has better attributes than those competing for a starting spot. Outmatched? Well, just to illustrate he IS well outmatched by (for example) nthe 29 year old Reggie Bush, a put returner who in one comparison was timed (whilst wearing helmet and pads and changing direction) at fully [url=http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/jarryd-hayne-versus-reggie-bush-how-does-the-parramatta-eels-fullback-compare-to-an-nfl-star-20141015-1168bn.html1 METRE PER SECOND FASTER than Hayne.[/url. It's just one snapshot and it doesn't make Hayne slow - far from it - but yes he is in that comparison very considerably "outmatched".

I think people are under-estimating Hayne's chances and similarly over-estimating the NFL.

Firstly, the specialization people speak of isnt as pronounced as the say. Cornerbacks havent been specialized as CB's since they were 5 years old. Many, if not most, of the best ones will play CB and WR and a multitude of other positions all the way up through high-school. Because they are such talented athletes, and because winning is so important americans even at schools level, they will be used in the same way our best youngsters sometimes are. Just get them involved because they are so much better than their counterparts. Ryan Tannehill played mostly WR in college but is QB for the Dolphins. Julian Edelman was a QB in college who has played defence for the Patriots, and lined up at WR last night.

Secondly, NFL teams often pick athletes and find a position for them. Lawrence Okoye was a discus thrower and is with the 49ers. Basketball players, sprinters and wrestlers have made the jump.

Thirdly, sometimes thing can be learned from other sports. Personally even as a an NFL fan, it frustrates me to watch some attempts at tackling with players far too concerned with making a hit than actually bringing a player down. You see a lot of tackles broken which looked at with league eyes we would criticise the tackler for 'going high', Perhaps Hayne would take advantage of that causing a rethink in how to actually tackle.

lastly, sometimes we see, a certain naivete can be a huge plus. Jason Robinson tore up union because he didnt play like a union player. Everything union players had spent their careers learning wasnt applicable to him. he didnt run where they expected him to go, he didnt go in to contact how they expected him to. Sports, especially like the NFL, are so structured now, and so planned out that someone seeing things entirely differently gets a huge advantage, especially an athlete like Hayne. There is a chance that after seeing a 13 man NRL defensive line rushing towards him a blocked and broken NFL special teams defence looks full of huge holes to him.

Will he make it? god knows. he probably should have done it a couple of years ago to give himself the best chance but i know he is a world class athlete by any measure, i know he is a world class broken field runner and i know he is used to carrying and contact. Good Luck to him.

So if Hayne could run 100 metres in 12 seconds - he is probably quicker than that - Reggie Bush must be the quicker than Usain Bolt!!

However Reggie Bush would have nowhere near the stamina to play 80mins of RL. Hayne right now is trained for a balance of speed, strength and stamina. Reggie Bush is pretty much a sprinter with a ball. Hayne possibly wouldnt need to be as strong as he is, and he certainly wouldnt need to have the stamina he does to play in the NFL. There is no reason to assume that Hayne couldnt improve his speed and explosiveness now he has less of a focus on strength and stamina.

Bush ran 10.42 in high school. I'd imagine he'll be quicker now, though obviously not as quick a Bolt.

There are NFL punt returners who have run sub 10-second 100m (Trindon Holliday and Jacoby Ford).

Hayne ran 100m in 11.20 when they had an NRLvsAFLvsRU track exhibition in Australia.

Needs retitiling to Jarryd Hayne lives in LA for 6 months before rejoining the NRL.

Bolt powers away imperiously in the last 30 metres or so to crush his rivals. But I think I'd have a sneaky bet on Reggie Bush in a 40 metre dash.

Now there's an event that somebody should organize!

As the article refers to, Hayne has shut his speed off and is celebrating before he reaches the in goal so the comparison in speed is flawed from the outset.

Reggie Bush is not an NFL hopefull either he's the best there is currently playing in the NFL, even way back when he wasn't just a trial camp athlete he was the no1 draft pick.

As for my original post in hindsight I went back and had another look and I agree with you so I edited it yesterday.

Excellent post and expands on one of my original points that Haynes lack of experience as an NFL player could end up being a major positive for him.

Avenger, you have no idea what you are talking about. There will be sophomores who understand more about their body than Hayne ever will. From a physical point of view he won't get a look in. Some of these punt returners can do almost sub 10 second 100 m sprints with full padding. There is nothing from a physical point of view he can offer that someone in the 9th round of the draft pick can't offer who have also played the game all their life.

He will be another Dwain Chambers but good on him for at last chasing his dream

Regards

King James

The Avenger, I didn't get to read your intial response so no hard feelings.
I've watched Gridiron for over 30 years so I think I have a fairly good take on the sport.

There's no doubt that Hayne is a fantastic athlete, he has being honing his bodies requirements to play RL for over 10 years, a sport of bodily contact with lengthy periods of running over 2x40 minutes halves with attack and defence coming in quick succession. He is the consumate all-rounder, this is what enables RL players to play very well in various positions. He could play Loose, in the halves, on the wing, centre, second row (with a few kg added on) hooker, probably only Prop evades him but could by bulking up.
There's actually very little difference between most positions in RL, you learn to tackle and pass as a kid, the are the basic fundamentals, we all know how to kick grubbers/bombs just few do it at the top level. Most could slot over a kick from in front of the posts too (and in Paul Anderson's case from the touchline too..lol)
By comparison NFL is very specific, so much so that very very few players are able to cover other positions.
As for experience (in a pro sport environ) isn't always a guide as to how well someone will do, just look at young kids coming through in RL, no fear, wet behind the ears and play incredible rugby. Because our sport is massively less technical than NFL, put a 17/18 yr old kid into a pro NFL game and he'd be cut to shreds and taken off shortly afterwards, it just wouldn't happen anyway. The youngest ever player is 19 (funnily his surname is Okoye too) and only because he'd finished his college education having started it at 16. A rare occurance in itself.

I think the fact that Hayne is a big name in another sport is going to hinder him, fear of failure, fear of making a fool of yourself/not cutting the mustard. Human beings have similar natural reactions/fears, training ourselves to overcome these is difficult and when in stress situations they tend to come to the fore. The spotlight will be on him from certain circles and some will be happy if he fails. I'm not one of them.

That said in my considered opinion I just don't think he will make it, I don't think a team will risk putting him on the field as a punt/kick returner even if they wanted to. Realistically it is the only position he could go straight into as it's the most basic of positions (even more basic than place kickers/punters).
Let's see what happens and IF he does get a chance I'll be watching with interest



And yes, the tackling by the Safety's and some linebackers leaves a lot to be desired, they make similar mistakes to RL players, tackling bigger players up top and just get pushed off, run over or the attacker makes a whole load more yards. They could learn a lot frankly and I watch in amazement how easily some of them drop off tackles or even can't figure out where the runner is going, distinctly odd in fact some of the mindless defence that happens but some of that is pressure/speed of thought.

As for Okoye (discus), an amazing physical specimen, intelligent and motivated, unlucky to get injured and was cut by the 9'ers back in August only to come back due to injuries. He's run a 100m FASTER than Hayne @ 11.02s, his 40yd dash of 4.74 in his combine is incredible (faster than JJ WATT even!) yet he's 32kg heavier than Hayne !! It just just shows you how incredibly difficult it is to break into the sport with zero technical experience even with all the physical attributes such as that Okoye has (And you never know he might get a game this season)

98.7% of college football players dont make it to the NFL. They have been playing all their lives and are the elite at that sport at that age. No player from another sport over the age of 25 has EVER made it in a non kicking position in the NFL. Good on Hayne for giving it a go but I would be totally amazed if he even gets past try out camp next year.

I am good at GT6 maybe I should ask Red Bull for a drive?

Quote ="JB Down Under"98.7% of college football players dont make it to the NFL. They have been playing all their lives and are the elite at that sport at that age. No player from another sport over the age of 25 has EVER made it in a non kicking position in the NFL. Good on Hayne for giving it a go but I would be totally amazed if he even gets past try out camp next year. I am good at GT6 maybe I should ask Red Bull for a drive?'" Couldn't hurt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Ord%C3%B3%C3%B1ez Quote Lucas Ordóñez Martín-Esperanza (born May 1, 1985) is a Spanish racecar driver, who entered professional racing by winning a spot in a PlayStation 3 Gran Turismo competition.[1[2 Racing for Nissan in the 2009 GT4 European Cup season, he secured a podium finish in his first event.[3 '"

Quote ="JB Down Under"98.7% of college football players dont make it to the NFL. They have been playing all their lives and are the elite at that sport at that age. No player from another sport over the age of 25 has EVER made it in a non kicking position in the NFL. Good on Hayne for giving it a go but I would be totally amazed if he even gets past try out camp next year. I am good at GT6 maybe I should ask Red Bull for a drive?'" Couldn't hurt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Ord%C3%B3%C3%B1ez Quote Lucas Ordóñez Martín-Esperanza (born May 1, 1985) is a Spanish racecar driver, who entered professional racing by winning a spot in a PlayStation 3 Gran Turismo competition.[1[2 Racing for Nissan in the 2009 GT4 European Cup season, he secured a podium finish in his first event.[3 '"

Good post. I bet you got into it the same time as me, in the days when it got big on Channel 4 in the mid 80's.

He is living in Seattle, not LA!

Did you ever consult a map of the USA?

Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"icon_surprised.gif He is living in Seattle, not LA! Did you ever consult a map of the USA?'" Can you read? Quote Hayne flies to LA on Sunday where he will base himself until he can set up trials with NFL franchises.'" tvnz.co.nz/othersports-news/wais ... ks-6110090

Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"icon_surprised.gif He is living in Seattle, not LA! Did you ever consult a map of the USA?'" Can you read? Quote Hayne flies to LA on Sunday where he will base himself until he can set up trials with NFL franchises.'" tvnz.co.nz/othersports-news/wais ... ks-6110090