Sorry but this argument is inherently flawed ...

Most, if not all, companies hope people will purchase their products or services as much as possible. That isn't the point. It's the ethical issue of the type of product/service they are offering and how they choose to carry out their business. Providing people with a service they cannot afford without any concern for this is the problem...

They rely on people feeling they don't have a choice and exploit them mercilessly. They're like the people who scavenged around after a battle, slitting the throats of the wounded so they could rob them.

So how ethical is selling the addictive products alcohol and tobacco? How does that compare to giving people the choice of borrowing from a FS company, rather than Knuckles the local loan shark, or not taking a loan at all?

Are you talking about banks or alcohol and tobacco companies?

I see little difference between payday loan companies and most other financial institutions. We're maybe all quick to condemn but we're quite happy getting interest on our bank savings without worrying about where that interest comes from. What is scandolous is the the third world debt which banks, governments and ultimately those of us in the so called developed world are profitting from.

It's obvious from the way they operate and how their profits are made. Over half of the income for a particular company came from people who didn't pay on time, leading to the massive, overinflated charges and fees that they then apply.

Alcohol and Tobacco are different, because they are not set up in this way. Also people have drunk and smoked for millenia, only recently are we seeing the decline of both of these industries, whereas payday loans companies have been set up in this more enlightened age, and how they are allowed to operate as they do is ludicrous.

Have you got data on those profit figures? Were they hidden from people taking loans? Have you compared them how much of tobacco cos profits comes from addicted smokers vs casual smokers? Are you saying people haven't borrowed money for millenia? Why am I asking more questions when you haven't answered the last ones so indicating you won't answer these ones?

Is this not the long and short of the debate? Can RL afford to have morals at the moment?

Of course we should have morals, this is sport we are talking about and it should be seen as entertainment and community not a cold hard business that all sport seems to be turning into now

I think the comparison between the payday loans companies and the traditional tobacco and alcohol sponsorship of pervious years in rugby league (and wider sport) is a valid one. Ranking them as evils is probably the best way. Alcohol in itself is not a problem (moderate alcohol is actually proven as beneficial in some circumstances) but the abuse of it is certainly is. What I would question though is whether the blame for the problems in alcohol abuse in the country should be laid exclusively at the foot of the breweries etc or the cheap deals provided by supermarkets/bars/clubs or the simple fact that British people seem to equate getting hammered with having a good time

The tobacco industry on the other had has known for years that they have been selling a product that kills and have pretty much used every under hand tactic they can find to try and persuade people their product is fine

Pay day loan companies are the new parasite on society – preying on the uneducated and vulnerable. Of course the argument exists that these services only exist if people are prepared to use them and nobody is forcing people to subscribe but the fact is they are exploitative and calculating

The question I would ask myself is this, would I work for one of these businesses and the answer is this...

Alcohol manufacturer = yes
Tobacco company = no
Pay day loan company = never

Retail banks underpin the financial integrity of everyday life. I would hate to have to travel to pay my gas bill, my council tax, tv license etc etc - and I'm old enough to remember having to do just that, with the worry of carrying large sums of cash around. They employ large numbers of workers who genuinely split a gut to help their customers.

Investment banks have been behaving like casino's, except its been your pension funds they've been gambling with, and its high time they were strictly regulated.

Much of the blame for the financial crisis lies on greedy banks allowing and encouraging people to take on debts they could not service - nobody made people take out 120% mortgages on homes that fell in value. Which shows just why many people need protecting from themselves - to keep the circling sharks at bay.

If SL fails to get a suitable sponsor for next year, they should offer the benefits to Citizens Advice and other support agencies who help people who have fallen into what must seem to be a deep, dark hole.

I know of someone who was offered £70,000 a year to leave his £45,000 a year job and work for one of these companies in the Goldthorpe area - he turned it down on principle, and the RFL should do the same if the situation arises.

Although there must be some reasonable payday loan companies out there, the interest rates quoted by some of these companies are scandalous.
Nearly 3000 % on a short term loan and there is a credit card being advertised at the mo with an APR of almost 300 %.
Some people may get some benefit from these services but, screwing people into the ground that have very few options is lower than low and is a reflection on the state of the economy.
A life without principles isn't a life, its just an exsistance !

To be fair I think there's a bit of excessive hysteria about these companies. My brother(being young and stupid) owed one of them (Wonga but I couldn't say for certain) about £80 and missed the repayment and they agreed to let him pay back something daft like £10 a month when he injured his hand and couldn't work until he payed it off, they only added a small fee onto what he already owed.

I compare that with some of the experiences I've had with banks, and people I know have had with actual banks, and by comparison they don't sound all that unreasonable.

You wouldn't see any real outrage if Natwest wanted to sponsor the sport, but anybody who's been with them will know that they can financially cripple you if you end up over your agreed overdraft. I mean if you want to talk about massive, overinflated charges and fees when breaching a financial agreement then highstreet banks are surely as bad as any?

While I oppose any business that exploits the poor and vulnerable in such a way, the cynic in me can't help but think a lot of the opposition to these payday loan companies is driven by competition. Might be I'm well off the mark but I imagine high street banks are losing an absolute fortune now poor people are having their money taken from excessive pay day loan fees as opposed to excessive bank fees.

The difference is that vulnerable or the less well off have less to lose. For instance, a £35 bank charge to me is irritating, but when you only get £56 a week then its devastating. I work with young adults who (amongst other things) have fallen foul of the payday loan companies, for example one lad I work with borrowed £60, and as he failed to meet one payment the extra charges went on, which led to higher repayments that he couldn't afford, which he then couldn't meet, which led to more charges etc etc etc. Once they have their teeth into them, they dont easily let go. As others have mentioned, it is only those who can least afford to use these parasites who encounter problems, they shouldn't lend to vulnerable people and have more stringent checks or at least require an individual to be working.

It's stupid talking about tobacco companiesa given they are prohibited from advertising anything.

Alcohol is a major component of our way of life, and the large majority of RL fans love a drink, beer and rugby go hand in hand. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with a brewer being a sponsor.

When I was younger and lost my job, going back a few years here, Natwest brought me to my knees after breaching the arranged overdraft. They wouldn't relent or freeze my balance when I reached out to them, instead they charged me just about everyday and before I knew it I was hundreds of pounds in debt. I think one month they charged me a grand total of £130 or £160 in fees, all for initially being a few £ overdrawn. In the end I accepted defeat and did what I was too stupid to do at the beginning, which was to borrow money off my family to get back in the positive.

It just bemuses me that payday loans are morally outrageous but as a society we seem to gloss over what big banks do, even so far as having this attitude that people who take out overdrafts, loans, credit cards they can't afford somehow deserve it, their own fault for being stupid. There's very little sympathy for people who get screwed by the banks.

I don't think I'm being argumentative when I say that if by some reason I breached my arranged overdraft with my bank, I would gladly borrow from one of the big payday loan companies if it meant saving me from much more severe bank charges. Obviously in reality I'd just borrow what I needed off my relatives or friends, but if I didn't have that option I'd sooner cough over a few quid to a payday loan company than lose upwards of £100 to Natwest.

(I think most payday loan companies do require people to work don't they?)

What's the relevance of an annual rate on a loan that's advertised as being to your next payday?

If you want to borrow £100 off me for a week, and knowing your a bit dodgy I agree to lend it to you but say I'll charge you a tenner, pay me back £110 next week, is that fair? Seems so, but work out what that is as an APR. Of course it's an irrelevant APR because you aren't going to take a year to pay it back.

Of course you are correct in your analogy (and even I wouldn't lend to someone like me) but, not everyone manages to pay off their loan on payday and/or the loans occur at shorter intervals after the last pay cheque and then they "re-structure" and get stuffed with hefty rates of interest.
Even bog-standard credit cards get people "hooked" and these only charge around 20%.

Lets face it, if everyone who needed a bit of cash paid it back on time, these companies wouldn't be so prevalent and if we were all such good house keepers, these companies wouldn't exist at all.

You are of course absolutely right; technically, a payday loan is not in and of itself a bad thing - the interest rates in some cases are comparable if not better than, say, an unauthorised overdraft from a high street bank and used in the appropriate way, APR is irrelevant - they are advertised as short term loans after all.

The difficulty I guess is that there appear to be many operators in the market who do not act in an ethical way; the lure of the big profits involved in encouraging people to roll over their loans is too tempting and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence out there to suggest aggressive selling and devious strategies to discourage loans to be satisfied within the short-term agreement.

In short, the industry itself is not inherently evil, but it does need to be regulated in such a way that those with a mind to do mischief are prevented from so doing; I'm not sure I agree with the way these companies are demonised by politicians and the media but at the same time, to defend the industry as a whole with a similar broad brush is equally daft.

When they say pay day loans it sounds like they will get paid back when your pay check comes in, but for the biggest part of people borrowing money don't get a pay check, they get dole money, or job seekers allowance, so where are these checks what the company's are supposed to make.

They lend to the poor, making them poorer in the proses, & instead of being a short term loan, it turns into a weekly debt what is hard to get out of.

After reading the posts, it seems the people who think these type of loan's are OK, are the people who are in a position where they wont be using them, I've commented on this before, & it went on for a fare few pages, but those thinking, Pay Day Loan's are fine, go out and borrow a few hundred quid, & see how you get on.

So basically what you're saying is people shouldn't have the choice available to them. You have decided you know better than them and have decided they shouldn't have the choice.

Whereas you have decided that its ok for the foolish and vulnerable to be preyed upon by rich people wanting to get richer, quicker?

I suppose you are also against the giving of coupons and vouchers, as opposed to benefit money in the hand? Much better that people can choose to spend "their" money on booze, bookies, slots, bingo, drugs, tarts...

The majority of people accessing pay day loans deserve the protection of society, not the misguided right to self-destruction.

I have decided as that the foolish and vulnerable are not as foolish as you would like to believe and should be free to make their own choices, rather than have you and Frank impose your choices on them.

Excuse me?

I didn't give an opinion either way. I asked for clarification on your views.

You feel that that weak and vulnerable (and not everyone taking a pay day loan is weak or vulnerable, but most are), should be allowed to make their own mistakes...but then the outcry is "why aren't the government protecting us".

If the strong don't look after the weak, you get poverty.

Are you a banker, by any chance?

If you don't have an opinion, just who are you calling "foolish and vulnerable" ? Who are you calling weak? Who are these people that, unable to look after themselves, need your protection? How have you decided that most who use payday loan companies are weak or vulnerable?
No, I'm not a banker. Are you?

Do you deny that pay day loans are aimed the weak and vulnerable in society?

Do you think that the weak and vulnerable do not deserve the protection of society?

Do you seriously believe that pay day loan companies do not need regulating???

Are happy to pay higher to taxes to continue subsidising the weak and vulnerable, as the strong and rich continue to take advantage of them?

Where do you think rich people/organisations get their money?