Fine,

Here are the facts,

We have more people watching the game as a whole, over the last 5-10 years we have seen huge increases in crowds at nearly every club.

We have gone from an RFL which was about to go pop to one with cash surpluses every year AND record amounts distributed to member clubs

We have seen new facilities finally open at S Helens and Salford, improvements at Headingley and Craven Park.

We are seeing more people watch on TV (aswell as in the stands) Which will make us more attractive come renegotiation time, and even more so now there is real competition from BT.

That statistic is absolute nonsense to be honest with you. There are 700’000 people in Leeds, for one in five to attend Leeds would need an average of attendances of 175000 which would be by far the best attended sports team in the entire world ever.

Here's a few facts for you.

The accounts at Companies House to Nov 2010 show a worrying downward trend; the land value (assuming the £2.4m in tangible assets is made up primarily from the land they own) appears propping up an ever diminishing balance sheet and increasing [inegative[/i working capital of over £2m.

That means (for those unfamiliar) the Club has accumilated a trading loss of over £2m over the years which is being propped up by their assets. However, the value of the losses is growing much faster than the value of the assets.

Assets are fine on a balance sheet but cash is king - you can't pay wages or the Revenue with lumps of clay.

In 2007 the balance sheet was worth just over £1m. In 2010 it's worth just over £350k. 2011 accounts arn't showing yet but I'm sure you can work out which way its going.

Do you want the miserable financial status' from half a dozen other SL clubs too?

Quote ="Alexs Dad"Here's a few facts for you. The accounts at Companies House to Nov 2010 show a worrying downward trend; the land value (assuming the £2.4m in tangible assets is made up primarily from the land they own) appears propping up an ever diminishing balance sheet and increasing [inegative[/i working capital of over £2m. That means (for those unfamiliar) the Club has accumilated a trading loss of over £2m over the years which is being propped up by their assets. However, the value of the losses is growing much faster than the value of the assets. Assets are fine on a balance sheet but cash is king - you can't pay wages or the Revenue with lumps of clay. In 2007 the balance sheet was worth just over £1m. In 2010 it's worth just over £350k. 2011 accounts arn't showing yet but I'm sure you can work out which way its going. Do you want the miserable financial status' from half a dozen other SL clubs too?'" Yeah fine, give us it. Meanwhile, here are some facts, just for comparison with Premier League, with their promotion and relegation and all. There have been 39 administrations since 2001 in the football league. There are 92 clubs in the football league. The biggest club in the premier league is currently saddled with huge debts that have required a disappointing flotation as they struggle with repayments. The current European champions lost £67m in the financial year up to the end of June, this is in addition to the £340m that was lost up to 2009, which included a loss of £141m in a single year Man City last year posted losses of £194m An interesting article www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league

Quote ="Alexs Dad"Here's a few facts for you. The accounts at Companies House to Nov 2010 show a worrying downward trend; the land value (assuming the £2.4m in tangible assets is made up primarily from the land they own) appears propping up an ever diminishing balance sheet and increasing [inegative[/i working capital of over £2m. That means (for those unfamiliar) the Club has accumilated a trading loss of over £2m over the years which is being propped up by their assets. However, the value of the losses is growing much faster than the value of the assets. Assets are fine on a balance sheet but cash is king - you can't pay wages or the Revenue with lumps of clay. In 2007 the balance sheet was worth just over £1m. In 2010 it's worth just over £350k. 2011 accounts arn't showing yet but I'm sure you can work out which way its going. Do you want the miserable financial status' from half a dozen other SL clubs too?'" Yeah fine, give us it. Meanwhile, here are some facts, just for comparison with Premier League, with their promotion and relegation and all. There have been 39 administrations since 2001 in the football league. There are 92 clubs in the football league. The biggest club in the premier league is currently saddled with huge debts that have required a disappointing flotation as they struggle with repayments. The current European champions lost £67m in the financial year up to the end of June, this is in addition to the £340m that was lost up to 2009, which included a loss of £141m in a single year Man City last year posted losses of £194m An interesting article www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league

Have you noticed what's been happening with the world economy lately? Do you expect SLE to be able to fix that?

Quote ="SmokeyTA"Yeah fine, give us it. Meanwhile, here are some facts, just for comparison with Premier League, with their promotion and relegation and all. There have been 39 administrations since 2001 in the football league. There are 92 clubs in the football league. The biggest club in the premier league is currently saddled with huge debts that have required a disappointing flotation as they struggle with repayments. The current European champions lost £67m in the financial year up to the end of June, this is in addition to the £340m that was lost up to 2009, which included a loss of £141m in a single year Man City last year posted losses of £194m An interesting article www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league'" And the ' relevance ' to Castleford or RL in this post is ?

Quote ="SmokeyTA"Yeah fine, give us it. Meanwhile, here are some facts, just for comparison with Premier League, with their promotion and relegation and all. There have been 39 administrations since 2001 in the football league. There are 92 clubs in the football league. The biggest club in the premier league is currently saddled with huge debts that have required a disappointing flotation as they struggle with repayments. The current European champions lost £67m in the financial year up to the end of June, this is in addition to the £340m that was lost up to 2009, which included a loss of £141m in a single year Man City last year posted losses of £194m An interesting article www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-c ... per-league'" And the ' relevance ' to Castleford or RL in this post is ?

His post was quite simply supplying ' facts ' about Castelfords possible problems , yes we are in a reccession , I didnt realise that was a secret

I've not mentioned anything about SLE, franchising, Premier League debts, or anything else.

I was just letting Smokey know he was chatting waffle again with his claim that Cas are not 'struggling quite as much as the poorly reported article first makes out'.

They are, quite clearly, and I've given his some solid facts that he so clearly demands before any argument against his own is even deemed fit for consideration, so have the 'SLE is good/bad' argument with someone else because its one that bored me long ago.

So, what is the argument then? Simply that Cas might or might not have a few problems? Can't see anyone suggesting that they might not, so we might all be in agreement that they have some problems. That being the case, what are we discussing?

its pretty obvious if you read it

There is no argument from me, for some strange reason you brought up something with zero relevance to my response to Smokey.

There is no argument from anyone not looking to pretend that 'not as bad as that poorly reported article first makes out' is equal to 'no problems at all'.

No it isnt , football and RL are different sports , this is a RL forum , if you wish to discuss football , try the ' other sports ' board , you are a complete idiot to suggest any relevance whatsoever , then again we already know you are an idiot

So either you didn’t or can’t read it. Fair enough, we don’t need another thread where you give us you pretend to be confused by simple things.

Are you for real ?
our response merely confirm what I had suggested, ie per capita of population in Cas, there is far more interest in their rugby league club.
If RL was as popular (per capita) in Leeds, thy would indeed need a larger stadium

No , he's not ,

They would need a stadium 25k bigger than any stadium in existence today, the need a stadium nearly twice as big as Wembley, They would need a stadium as big as the MCG and Old Trafford put together. And they would need to fill it every single game.

A per capita comparison is just nonsense when you are comparing one place with another which is about 20 times bigger. Its like the USA saying they are failing as an economy because per capita wealth is so much lower than Monaco.

Maybe we should put a team in Notton and then we can cheer about how brilliant and wonderful we are and how important Notton is to the game because 50% of the population go watch them, We can take all the money that 400 people pay to the bank and see if it will pay for a professional team?

They be bailed out like Bradford.

smokey , read it again

Before we start your doddering old man impression Starbug, read it again.

That sentence doesnt say that 'in Cas RL is more important' it says 'RL in Cas is of far more importance' those things dont mean the same thing. If you read the whole sentence that might have been apparent to you.

Even if Wrencat meant 'In Cas, RL is more important' then that statistic still isnt really evidence, but it is completely irrelevant to this thread.

To magnify the arguement, if everybody in a particular area takes part in an activity, then the activity in that area is important to them.
If nobody in an area takes part then, clearly that activity is unimportant to them.
In Castleford RL is a major part of what goes on in the town and , per capita of population which is about the only way you can compare interest in connubations of differing szes, then , yes RL is more important in Cas, or to the people of Cas than it is in SOME other areas IMO.
You of courese are entitled to your own opinion but your own opinion is just that, fortunately you dont have a voice for the sport as a whole.

The extension of your argument then is, If this per capita calculation is correct, then it assumes that not only is nobody outside Castleford attending, nobody will. And whilst the per capita figure is relatively high, it is only that way because Castleford are operating in a much much smaller market, and as such have much much less potential growth, and it leaves them in a position where if they were to look to compete with the big boys, they would need between 1 in 2 and 1 in 3 people, in Castleford attending every single week. Which is clearly an unrealistic target. You are then left with the unavoidable conclusion that Castleford cant, and wont ever be able to compete, and that this level is probably their peak as their market is pretty much at saturation.

However Castleford fans will tell you that they don’t only attract fans from Cas, that there are areas outside of Cas which they can and do target and their potential isn’t limited because of Cas’ relatively small size because Cas’ market isn’t only the relatively small town of Cas. Which would make your per capita figure nonsense.

Is that similar to comparing one sport with another......Lets say Football with Rugby League.

I've read enough drivel from you on nearly every thread you have contributed to. Can someone please point me in the direction of the Blocking Facility on here.......Sweet Jesus!!!!

I am getting all confused now.....
SL is growing attendances and getting more money from Sky, below SL is dieing and is forced to play its best games on a Thursday on a channel few watch for no TV income. The RFL has managed to get in on the government Freebies to paper over the cracks, the freebies are being reduced and the RFL's payment to the clubs is already down 10% to £90k when the SKY deal is increasing. The RFL's income in comparison to the RFU is pitiful. We can compare RL to Soccer for losses but not for structures, eg P&R, we cant compare Soccers ability to attract stupidly rich benefactors who are willing to put in hundreds of millions to fund their hobby. Sky viewers are on the up as they are for the other major sports, is that due to increasing numbers of subscribers?, The Championships are removed from Sky and Championship RU is introduced, despite some decent viewing figures especially for GF and NRC final which hit PRU levels. RFL cant get a sponsor for its flagship, yet nobody else has that problem. RFL stops its non SL clubs being ambitious by removing P&R yet Soccer and RU, even Cricket, can see the benefits of it and have no issues attracting sponsors with RU accelerating crowd growth at club level far greater than RL. Alex's Dad provides worrying facts that he is willing to show that half of the SL clubs are in a similar position. Then we see below SL is to become a feeder comp to support the removal of academies

All in all I believe the running of RL in comparison with its primary competitors over the same period is poor and lacked honesty and values in its dealings with non SL clubs. I believe we can and should be doing much better, but that the incumbants are incapable of making the sport the best it can be.

You have been from the start.