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| Most professional sports are (at least in the UK) at root, loss making exercises that end-up being underpinned by folks with a lot of money who love the game. Its been like that for the last 100 years, across all major sports. The more you try to make League purely self-sustaining, the more you'll fail. We need to get a grip on reality and accept that rich benefactors are good for us.
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| Quote ="Chris Dalton"Get radical. '"
Reduce the number of teams in the competition has to be the first step.
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| Reduce salary cap to 1.2 million. Would solve the financial problems for most clubs overnight.
20 players avg 60k each, sorted.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Bradford have laid off their coaching staff now. Perhaps a club disappearing would make them realise what they are doing to the sport.
FFS cut Super League to 10 teams, play fewer fixtures. It would make the league a higher standard and games more competive. Every game would be unpredictable and I'm sure Sky would buy into it.'"
and we'd have less games with less annual income.....
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| Quote ="Chris Dalton". Yes we're facing administration but we're too big and well attended to go down. For me, that's a crime. It's never the fans fault - and I wouldn't dream of getting at them, but just like it is when most other clubs goes through this, it's awful management and they've not been thinking long term at all.'"
Ah yes, the "We are too big to fail" argument. How did that work out for Rangers?
You will have a club without a licence and without an application for one. If other clubs had to submit applications and be graded and checked to be in SL, why would a newco Bradford not have to do the same. Crusaders had to start over with their newco in CC!.
If they are admitted to SL without meeting the licencing criteria, those same criteria will have been proved to be meaningless. Other clubs wanting a SL licence who were knocked back or passed over for the newco may well sue. The London Welsh precedent will be cited. To whit, there are criteria you are setting to us Championship clubs which have not been applied to existing members of SL.
Any new Bradford need to be allowed back in at the lower level and work their way up and then apply for a SL licence at the licencing window like all others. Either that or re introduce p and r and let them play themselves back to SL.
Bradford have no " Divine Right" to a SL place unless and until thery fulfill the licencing criteria.
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| Hasn't a precedent already been set in such a situation with Wakefield though? If nobody appealed then that's basically an agreement that it is acceptable.
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| No. Wakefield were different. They submitted an application and were vetted and were accepted and issued a licence. That might have not stood if Crusaders did not withdraw their licence application but Wakefiled did actually apply for a licence.
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| Quote ="keighley1".. If other clubs had to submit applications and be graded and checked to be in SL, why would a newco Bradford not have to do the same. ..'"
Because the decisions are not left to disgruntled Keighley fans carrying Titanic-sized chips on their shoulders?
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| Quote ="justthebasicfax"Those Barmy bar stewards at Red Hall may have fooled some, but not all.
Bradford, and other clubs have been stupid, however...
The RFL don't get out of this that easy, licensing, grading, auditing, buying leases or freeholds, propping up franchises, Sponsorship deals that beggar belief, destroying GB and Ashes series, removing the competitive essence of sport.
They have had a play, now leave the dam sport alone.'"
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| Quote ="PopTart"and we'd have less games with less annual income.....'"
Initially yes, but wouldn't the product be better with some of the lower end teams gone. The quality players will be more evenly distibuted, this will improve the product as a spectacle, with more high intensity matches we may be able to win the World Cup or 4 nations. More exposure more money and the cycle continues. Once the national team wins something the exposure comes in you only need to look at RU after 2003 and cricket after 2005 to see this.
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Reduce salary cap to 1.2 million. Would solve the financial problems for most clubs overnight.
20 players avg 60k each, sorted.'"
Except that loads of the better players would go to Union or Australia, and while noble fans such as yourself would still go to watch League, those fair-weather fans like me and many others would be less interested in low level rugby and go do something else at the weekend. "Good riddance" I hear you say, "we don't need your sort".
...but sponsors would then be even *less* interested, gates would drop too, TV would start switch off and so would income. In two seasons, you'd be on here again asking that we reduce the cap to £500k, as the sport races to amateurism.
It's the same 'myth of cuts' that the Tories are taking us to the doldrums with.
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| Quote ="RLBandit"Except that loads of the better players would go to Union or Australia, and while noble fans such as yourself would still go to watch League, those fair-weather fans like me and many others would be less interested in low level rugby and go do something else at the weekend. "Good riddance" I hear you say, "we don't need your sort".
...but sponsors would then be even *less* interested, gates would drop too, TV would start switch off and so would income. In two seasons, you'd be on here again asking that we reduce the cap to £500k, as the sport races to amateurism.
It's the same 'myth of cuts' that the Tories are taking us to the doldrums with.'"
Agreed.
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| Quote ="Hopie"A 14 team league where the teams at the top rest their better players against the teams at the bottom because league games don't really matter?'"
This.
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| Quote ="RLBandit"Except that loads of the better players would go to Union or Australia, and while noble fans such as yourself would still go to watch League, those fair-weather fans like me and many others would be less interested in low level rugby and go do something else at the weekend. "Good riddance" I hear you say, "we don't need your sort".
...but sponsors would then be even *less* interested, gates would drop too, TV would start switch off and so would income. In two seasons, you'd be on here again asking that we reduce the cap to £500k, as the sport races to amateurism.
It's the same 'myth of cuts' that the Tories are taking us to the doldrums with.'"
Dont agree. Sky needs league to fill a hole. Dont forget the hard times people are having, if sky dropped league I would drop my sky package. They value league as it has replaced monday night football.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Because the decisions are not left to disgruntled Keighley fans carrying Titanic-sized chips on their shoulders?'"
So all pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal than others or alternatively " Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of big clubs".
Well, in my opinion, there will be more than me disgruntled of you are allowed back in SL in contravention of all rules and regulations. Other clubs looking to be in the top level will say " Why should we have to comply with the rules when Bradford don't" and when SL reply, " Because we say so" then law suits might start flying.
Were Rangers given the boot from the SPL by disgruntled Partick fans. I don't think so. It was a bit higher than that.
Then there is the Crusaders precedent and the London welsh precedent. Rules is rules but not for the Bulls. You had better hope you are right.
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| My team are one of the few who a) own their own ground and b) don't have a sugar daddy. As such we should be an example to which others aspire, yet because of the obsession with shiny stadiums required to meet the franchise criteria, and our inability to compete with other clubs wrt squad size and quality because we lack a backer with deep pockets we are in a sorry state.
Funny old world...
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| Quote ="ExiledTiger"My team are one of the few who a) own their own ground and b) don't have a sugar daddy. As such we should be an example to which others aspire, yet because of the obsession with shiny stadiums required to meet the franchise criteria, and our inability to compete with other clubs wrt squad size and quality because we lack a backer with deep pockets we are in a sorry state.
Funny old world...'"
Most of the people who rail against "shiny stadiums" don't have one. The costs involved in keeping going a tumbledown stadium and the image they give to the sport make new stadiums a very good acquisition.
I'm fed up of people going on about the charm of old stadiums. It's a myth. Standing in urine in the toilets and standing on moss covered terraces struggling to see the game is not my idea of a good night out.
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| How can clubs be overspending on players?
The cap hasn't been raised since it was brought in. Inflation has already eroded it by more than 30%.
The real problem is the failure of clubs to increase their revenue, despite new stadiums and apparently good TV deals.
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| Quote ="Deano G"How can clubs be overspending on players?
The cap hasn't been raised since it was brought in. Inflation has already eroded it by more than 30%.
The real problem is the failure of clubs to increase their revenue, despite new stadiums and apparently good TV deals.'"
As I said, they are more interested in finding ways to spend more money ( beating the SC ) than finding ways to make more money
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| Quote ="Deano G"...The real problem is the failure of clubs to increase their revenue, despite new stadiums and apparently good TV deals.'"
The real problem is, despite what many of the posters on here believe, is that RL is popular in the UK ONLY in small pockets along the M62 corridor and Cumbria that cannot afford to fund a full time league.
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"The real problem is, despite what many of the posters on here believe, is that RL is popular in the UK ONLY in small pockets along the M62 corridor and Cumbria that cannot afford to fund a full time league.'"
There are more than enough people within the areas RL is played to finance a FT league
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| Quote ="Mr Dog"The real problem is, despite what many of the posters on here believe, is that RL is popular in the UK ONLY in small pockets along the M62 corridor and Cumbria that cannot afford to fund a full time league.'"
10,000 averahe fans at home games + residual spends, combined with TV cash is 5,000,000 quid a year.......that should be the business model that clubs are tasked with achieving.
One of the points of Franchising was that they wouldn't waste money that could be spent on achieving this trying to stave off relegation...all that's happened is clubs have continued to spend money on players and neglect the important stuff.
London have wasted the cap this year.....and spent nothing on attracting fans.....HKA have wasted cash on average Aussies since they came up, Bradford wasted cash on players and cut prices.....that's ending well.....Wakey and Castlerford are chasing the new stadium dream, salford are still 4k short of where thye wanted/neede/expected to be fan wise.....
I am all for Franchises and no P&R, but only if it's for the benefit of the sport....currently, it's for the benefit of the SL clubs currently at the top table......kind of reminds me of the reasons for an earlier split in the code.....
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| HKR have spent significant amounts rebuilding their jnr programme over the last 5 years (now starting to have something to show for it) have extended the east stand, relaid the pitch, upgraded lights, building a new nth stand etc etc. to suggest all clubs are not trying to become more self sufficient is rubbish.
Reality is salary cap is currently set about 250-300 k more than 75% of clubs can afford.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"10,000 averahe fans at home games + residual spends, combined with TV cash is 5,000,000 quid a year.......that should be the business model that clubs are tasked with achieving......'"
I should have said @cannot afford a FT league at current salary levels.'
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| Quote ="Starbug"There are more than enough people within the areas RL is played to finance a FT league'"
Only if enough of them are interested in RL. Quite clearly there aren't.
You've personally stated that there aren't in Leigh, which is pretty much a hotbed for the game. Same for Huddersfield, the Wakefield MDC, Halifax, South Yorkshire, Manchester, York, Cumbria.......
I'm afraid until people accept this, the game will never grow as it will continue to overstretch and not set itself realistic 'expansion' targets.
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