Who has won players player for what ever SL team you support, we'll get them all together and vote on it in a seperate thread

Warrington's is Mick Monaghan

By not being Vomkinsesque in 2008.

Sculthorpe, Farrell, Peacock, Graham, Roby, Lyon................................................................................................................................................... T(V)omkins should not be associated with this previous lot, unless we are letting standards slip.

Explain this then:

In 2000 we didn't know he'd turn out to be a gambling, drunk resident of Dale Farm.

Whilst I don't think Rangi will win it, he is definitely deserving of top 3, I reckon it was go S. Tompkins, Rangi, Roby.

That 5000m is impressive only due to the fact that Saints play a style which sees them run from dummy half massively more than any other team.

As has been pointed out, Roby has 778 runs from dummy half. That means he is running from dummy half 30 times per game! He makes an average of 5.27m per carry.

Warrington don't play that style, and as a team have made almost 400 fewer runs from dummy half. Monaghan has made 342 runs from dummy half - 13 per game. He makes an average of 5.64m per carry.

Roby's defensive efforts are what stands out for me more than his work with the ball, as he completes around 40 tackles per match.

As for MOS, not overly fussed who wins it, there are probably half a dozen who have a case for it, but I don't buy the fact that it needs to be any more than the best player. Forget the leadership, toughness, respect etc. I'd be happy for any of the mentioned players to get it.

I think you are underestimating St Helens as a team and its capabilities here. Saints cover more ground than any other team because they have no real kicking game and have been the top metre makers for the past 4 years including this season. They are averaging 3000+ metres per man and its obvious Roby and Graham are above average as they can exploit gaps quicker both in Superleague and the International game.

I,m "voting" for Roby because whichever way you look at it he's impressive and the opposition is incapable of stopping what he is good at. His discipline is immaculate, plays full on for 80 mins and is truly a world class player respected by all.

Haha. No.

Rangi Chase.

3074 metres man game average after 27 games.

Have you played every game without subs then?

Morley for me, missed a few games due to doublevision but once he found out how to get it healed and it wouldn't get worse from 80minutes of rugby he jumped back in. Then had the op, then straight back in.

LMS is gonna get him.

Menzies for me. He epitomises everything the MOS should be. Since his introduction into SL he has been consistently one of the best players around. Carried a poor Bradford team and has continued to shine at Cats. If you ever want to teach a youngster how to play the game then he's the perfect role model

i think it should be awarded to the only player I have ever seen, from being stood still..... look an opposing player in the eyes... and then dive on the floor to avoid being tackled.

now THATS a man of steel.

I don't think Chris Riley has played enough games to be considered MOS personally.

i have never seen Riley commit an act of cowardice on a rugby field.

Menzies is a great role model, I'd have no complaints with him winning it.

It says a lot about you when you call ANY Rugby League player a coward.

Shame on you.

TBH mate, your post doesn;t really make sense (apart from the Roby stuff - I would have no issue with him winning).

On your first points, again, they make most metres because they carry the ball more. Let's compare the top three teams.

Saints make an extra 27metres per game than Wire, and 54metres per game than Wigan, which is around 4 tackles for Wire and just over a set of 6 for Wigan.
Saints however carry the ball 10 times per game more than Wigan, and 23 times more than Wire. So basically in four sets they make only 27 metres more than Wire.
This is sort of my point, and the point with Roby and Graham. They aren't the best metre makers in the league, they simply are given the ball more whereas others spread the work. Don't get me wrong, these players could easily be descirbed as the hardest working, but metres per carry etc gives a truer reflection. Both Wigan and Wire make more metres per set of 6.

Wire and Wigan make more metres per carry than Saints, and score more tries. Saints obviously keep hold of the ball more because they are getting to the end of their sets more often, as opposed to the other two, who are often finishing sets early with tries.

And finally, if you take each team's top 3 metre makers:

Saints - Roby, Graham, LMS
Wire - Hodgson, Wood, Monagham
Wigan - Tomkins, Richards, Charnley

Saints top 3 make up 30% of their team's total metres and carries. Wire and Wigan's carry for between 20-21% of their team's carries, and between 20-25% of their metres. There is a balance issue with Saints as a team, and this suggests quite the opposite of your original point of the team working hard and all the players doing their bit making the hard yards.

Personally I think it is a slight weakness of the Saints team, that there is an over-reliance of Roby and Graham. These two players actually make more carries than Wire's top 3 combined.

I don't really think it's a weakness in the over reliance, we have to bring in the factor that St Helens have to rely on these 2 past men of steel due to the enormous injury situation that has occurred of the last 2 to 3 seasons.
Does metres per carry really matter it's how they effect the 80 min game, if we look at Feka of Salford without checking he probably has the best metres/carry than Graham, but Feka would only play for 20 mins.....which player would you have in your side.
The other reason for MOS is that Roby and Graham do it through hard yards, the opposition have tried to stop it for years but they have rarely been capable of doing it.
If you look at The top metre makers for Wigan, these are a full back and 2 wingers, who will be running the ball back in most of there metres, whereas Roby will be doing it in heavy traffic, they have tried to stop him but he still has made 5000 metres. On top of that he almost topped the tackle count as well.
Does it really matter if St Helens rely on him too much, this topic is about a single entity a "Man of Steel". Totally agree that Morley, Menzies, mona's fit into this category, I just think that Vomkins would be an injustice to the players mentioned.

The fact that you have to resort to calling him 'Vomkins' shows how childish you are and distorts your argument greatly.

He said he committed an act of cowardice, not that he is, in general, a coward. I have seen players commit acts of cowardice on more than one occasion. Deliberately using your knees on a player in the act of scoring, for example.

I take on board what you are saying and don't disagree entirely. When you say people haven't been able to stop Roby and Graham, I don't really get it. They have great fitness levels clearly, but they make simlar yards as anyone else, it's just that their clubs demand that they stay on the pitch. I'm not criticising that as such, I was highlighting that the fact that Roby makes far more yards than any other hooker is not a clear sign that he is far better. I also disagreed with your assertion that the team worked really hard, with a high average metres per carry, when in fact the real average per player will be lower due to these two 'freaks'!

You say they haevn't stopped Roby, but there is an argument that they did, as his average carry per run is pretty low! He just gets to run it every set.

I like stats, as you can probably tell from my last post

but when the stats are so far clear of anyone else, that doesn't mean they are so much better, it means that there is something worth looking at.

Let's take the Monas v Roby debate. Monas got the MOM in the last game against Saints, although Roby was very good too. If we base the stats on their averages then it is possibly fair to make the assumption that Roby will have made 194metres and 36 tackles, and Monas will have made 95 metres and 17 tackles. Monas still got the better of that battle, so the freak stats aren't the be-all and end-all.

If we use these freak stats as the basis for their selection as MOS, then basically no other players can win this award, as no other props are used for 80m and no other team runs from dummy half like Saints do.

MOS is for the best player, not hardest working or toughest player. If that is Roby, fine, if it is Tomkins fine.

It's ok... i played RL for 20 years... I am in a position to call a cowardly act if i see one.