[uRESULTS - 1986-2008 - Australian Schoolboys 14 wins, England 3 wins[/u

2008 - Australian Schoolboys beat England Academy 68-6 and 17-10.
2006 - Australian Schoolboys beat England Academy 36-22 and 32-20.
2004 - England Academy beat Australian Schoolboys 33-24.
2002 - England Academy beat Australian Schoolboys 28-22 and 22-12.
2001 - Australian Schoolboys beat England Academy 18-12 and 44-22.
1999 - Australian Schoolboys beat England 24-4 and 16-12.
1995 - Australian Schoolboys beat England 62-2 and 42-2.
1991 - Australian Schoolboys beat England 44-12 and 28-0.
1986 - Australian Schoolboys beat England 34-2 and 26-14.

I think going back 24 years is stretching your point a fair bit.

Over the past 10 years we are looking at 6-3 with plenty of pretty close results, we are certainly more competitive at this level than at full team level.

Interesting how when Bulls signed any import over 30 (two in last 2 years) quite a lot of Leeds supporters delighted in having a go, on these forums and elsewhere. Even though the average age of our overseas contingent was less than theirs. Now they sign one though, that's OK.

In fact IMO is IS OK - looks like a good signing, and for the reasons the sensible of the Leeds fans state. Makes a whole lot of sense in their particular circumstances, and can't see why folk would knock it.

Just wish when we made similar points, more of them would have acknowledged the same.

I was just querying your opinion that we compete "equally" with the Aussies at youth level in terms of results.

Incidentally, those 3 England wins against the Australian Schoolboys in 2002 and 2004 are the only occasions we've ever beaten them.

I'd agree that we are more competitive against them at youth level in recent times than we are at full team level, albeit marginally so.

[u2001 onwards[/u:

England Academy 3 wins, Australian Schoolboys 6 wins.
Played 9, Pts For 175, Pts Against 273, Average Score 19-30

GB/England 3 wins, Australia 14 wins.
Played 17, Pts For 225, Pts Against 490, Average Score 13-29

Are you taking the pi$$?



Let's tot up how many Academy players broke through at Wigan last season, then do the same for Leeds last season shall we.

.

If that were the case you wouldn't need to have argued the complete opposite only a week ago



No it's not, you brought the comparison between Cross and Lovegrove into the discussion. And now it seems that despite bagging Lovegrove for the last three years as not being good enough or no better than an English player, now (after Leeds signing a 32 year old Aussie journeyman) how good he is does not matter, the ONLY thing that matters is the number of players born outside England. So your now saying Lovegrove is good enough.

If ANY other club had made this siging you would have been apopleptic.



No, it's whether Leeds are guilty of making the kind of signing you would slate any other club for making. Guilty as charged.



If the mighty Leeds cannot find an English prop from the lower leagues or bring one of their own youngsters through instead of signing Cross, that is clear proof your farcical demands for other clubs to instantly generate SL quality players is just patently absurd.



Defending my club is a fortunate bi product of making you look an @rse.

i didnt, ill explain why below.



Because you compared Leeds to Hull KR



and again you are desperately trying to confuse two issues.

There needs to be fewer overseas players playing in our league. I have criticised Hull Kingston Australia for going into next season with 10 overseas players. You have defended this by arguing that they were 'needed' because there werent sufficient English players out there. I have proved this as nonsense by highlighting the quality of overseas players you have brought in, compared to the quality of british players out there.

Now you are attempting to equate the signing of Ben Cross and his reflection on the youth development and commitment to British players of Leeds, with signings of Lovegrove, Fisher, Green and Clinton and the signing of all of those with thats reflection on HKA and their youth development and commitment to british players which is clearly idiotic even for you.

To re-iterate, if Justin Morgan wants to go out and sign 5 park footballers from Australia and give 20 british lads a go, fine. I think it would be stupid and a poor decision but we cant legislate for coaches simply being crap. However if he is signing 10 overseas players then that needs to justified, and defending it by saying there isnt the comparable quality over here is nonsense when you are signing the likes of Lovegrove.


no i wouldnt, which is why i didnt criticise Saints for signing Perry or Hull for signing Fitzgibbon or O'meley

Except I wouldnt, and said exactly the same when you signed a similar player in Mason

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=469522

it would be if they didnt have a long and proud history of doing so. Thats why Adrian Morley, Gareth Carvell, Ryan Bailey, Nick Scruton, Danny Ward, and Luke Burgess came through Leeds' academy. Thats why Leeds have looked outside RL to bring in Ewan Dowes, thats why they looked to the lower leagues to sign Luke Ambler, they looked to the fringes to bring in Jay Pitts and why they spent the big money on Peacock.

you keep making these kind of statements yet the evidence is there to prove you wrong, Leeds are doing it, Saints are, and Hull are. Hull KR arent and others arent

Wooosh. The point was Wigan don't need those three!

Agreed. But what you cannot do, by law, is merely cancel existing contracts as if they didn't exist. The RFL recognise this and have set increasing requirements for home grown players which allow teams the time to develop young English players to a standard worthy of playing in the premier Rugby League competition. Whilst at the same time recognising the valuable contribution that longer serving overseas players have made to various clubs and British Rugby League by allowing their contracts to be exempted from the quota as long as they remain at the same club. This by definition is a temporary situation.



I haven't argued they were "needed" at all. Show me where I argued that. The fact is that Hull KR have a number of contracted players that [uthe RFL[/u class as exempt from the quota.



No I'm not. You're the one constantly berating other clubs for exactly the kind of signing that Leeds have just made.

Let me remind you of recent comments by yourself on this subject. I don't have to search too hard, you made them a few weeks ago...





Strange that one because you clearly seem to be suggesting that it is quality that counts in an Aussie signing, whereas now...



Or maybe it is the quality that counts?







I wish you'd make your mind up Smokey. Because if it really is about the number and not the quality then why the need for this comment?






Seems to be another reference to quality there mate

Still...



How right you are!

Maybe Rovers should have done this...



But then maybe if it's alright for Leeds then it's alright for Rovers eh?

It's really surprising Leeds had to make this signing because...





Makes you wonder why Leeds didn't manage to find a young prop as good as Korkidas or Lovegrove in the lower leagues really.

Still since Leeds exemplary scouting system failed to find a half decent prop, maybe there aren't as many potential SL players out there as you'd think. Or maybe you are just being an @rse.

Josh Perry will have him in his sights when we play Leeds, they never seemed to see eye to eye down under.

Smokey , the contradiction KING

This is the point I've raised this topic for....I can't keep repeating myself, I'm not aiming all the flak at Leeds. It's just they are the latest team to have done it.

If all SL teams put enough money and quality coaching into the youth system we wouldn't be buying any Aussies....that is the problem...teams clearly aren't!

Cross is exactly the sort of player Leeds are lacking and will prove to be a very astute signing IMO.

As for injury prone, he only missed a couple of games in 2010.

Is it just a question of money and coaching? Not if there aren't sufficient numbers of youngsters of the required athletic ability that are interested in taking up the game. In that instance no amount of money or quality coaching would produce the desired effect.

Absolute bobbins.

The Australians are miles ahead of us in terms of producing outstanding young players because if you want to be a professional sportsman in their country it's one of the most high profile and well paid sports to get involved in.

As long as that remains the case and talented young multi-sport athletes in the UK can make a better living out of a myriad of other sports than they can out of RL there will always be an overspill from the NRL into SL and into the lower leagues too (how many non-UK players did Sheffield have this season, for example?)

To make the statement that it's all about how much you invest in your youth systems and the quality of your coaching is naive in the extreme and ignores a whole load of other factors which restrict UK RL's access to the best athletes.

I'm sure he's terrified.

I'd take Perry over Cross anyday. Peacock won't be too happy to see Perry at Saints after he got banjoed in the WCC.

Banjoed? They stood toe to toe, Peacock missed most of his punches (clumsy technique), but Perry didn't exactly hurt him. In the Perry-Cross fight, Perry had a couple of full shots at Cross and didn't even make him move. Perry's got a good aim, but no result.

Add to that Perry vs. Clint Newton (and Mason) and Perry vs. Luke O'Donnell, and it could be Mark Carroll all over again.

You sound like an eager 10 year old. 'our players can batter your players' grow up ffs. If you judge player ability by how good they are at fighting, or think that players will be scared of others just because they've had a tussle in the past, then you need to grow up. They're professional rugby players, who's main objective is to win games, not have fights with the opposition.

If Peacock will be scared when he faces Perry then Mason will be absolutely bricking it when he faces Peacock!!

I've very rarely seen any seasoned prop who has made it to the top flight be scared of anyone, some people really need to grow up!

I love it if you look at the clip of Peacock and Perry fighting on youtube and read the comments. Half of them insist that Perry battered Peacock and the other half argue that Peacock "owns" Perry. In reality, two props throw a few, everyone else runs in to break it up and its over in a couple of seconds.

Its very rare anyone gets a clean punch in a la mason on fielden, and even then it doesn't necessarily mean they're harder. Steve Price (arguabley the best prop in the world at the time) got knocked out playing SOO, but if you watch the fight, he's got the guy on the ropes until a lucky punch sneaked through.

Quote ="Barnacle Bill"Agreed. But what you cannot do, by law, is merely cancel existing contracts as if they didn't exist. The RFL recognise this and have set increasing requirements for home grown players which allow teams the time to develop young English players to a standard worthy of playing in the premier Rugby League competition. Whilst at the same time recognising the valuable contribution that longer serving overseas players have made to various clubs and British Rugby League by allowing their contracts to be exempted from the quota as long as they remain at the same club. This by definition is a temporary situation.'" There is still no need to add to the overseas players you cant get rid of is there? Not being able to get rid of some of them is no excuse for signing more and extending contracts. The reason Hull KR havent reached the 5 overseas player target is nothing to do with Legal requirements, its just another red herring, Its to do with their short-termist outlook. Quote No I'm not.'" you clearly are, which is why you go on to say...... Quote You're the one constantly berating other clubs for exactly the kind of signing that Leeds have just made.'" Because i havent when it has been in isolation, only when part of a pattern. You have the very definition of a straw man argument here Quote Let me remind you of recent comments by yourself on this subject. I don't have to search too hard, you made them a few weeks ago... Strange that one because you clearly seem to be suggesting that it is quality that counts in an Aussie signing, whereas now... Or maybe it is the quality that counts? I wish you'd make your mind up Smokey. Because if it really is about the number and not the quality then why the need for this comment? Seems to be another reference to quality there mate Still... '" ill just repost what i told you last time, maybe it will sink in now Quote ="SmokeyTA" and again you are desperately trying to confuse two issues. There needs to be fewer overseas players playing in our league. I have criticised Hull Kingston Australia for going into next season with 10 overseas players. It has been defended by arguing that they were 'needed' because there werent sufficient English players out there. I have proved this as nonsense by highlighting the quality of overseas players you have brought in, compared to the quality of british players out there. Now you are attempting to equate the signing of Ben Cross and his reflection on the youth development and commitment to British players of Leeds, with signings of Lovegrove, Fisher, Green and Clinton and the signing of all of those with thats reflection on HKA and their youth development and commitment to british players which is clearly idiotic even for you. To re-iterate, if Justin Morgan wants to go out and sign 5 park footballers from Australia and give 20 british lads a go, fine. I think it would be stupid and a poor decision but we cant legislate for coaches simply being crap. However if he is signing 10 overseas players then that needs to justified, and defending it by saying there isnt the comparable quality over here is nonsense when you are signing the likes of Lovegrove. '" Quote How right you are! Maybe Rovers should have done this...'" it would be infinitely better than filling the league with very average overseas players Quote But then maybe if it's alright for Leeds then it's alright for Rovers eh?'" Surely you arent equating 6 overseas players as the same as 10 and rovers youth development with Leeds? Because if not what you have put is disingenuous nonsense, and if so its just plain mental. Quote It's really surprising Leeds had to make this signing because... Makes you wonder why Leeds didn't manage to find a young prop as good as Korkidas or Lovegrove in the lower leagues really. Still since Leeds exemplary scouting system failed to find a half decent prop, maybe there aren't as many potential SL players out there as you'd think. Or maybe you are just being an @rse.'" Psssst, they did, Kyle Amor and Luke Ambler to add to Ian Kirke Not to mention the England Captain Adrian Morley who was produced by Leeds Academy, Danny Ward, Ryan Bailey, Nick Scruton, and Gareth Carvell and Ewan Dowes from outside RL, and Jay Pitts from the fringes of the other squads, But other than those 10, they probably havent In related news, Leeds sign another young lower league player www.therhinos.co.uk/news/15088.php

Quote ="Barnacle Bill"Agreed. But what you cannot do, by law, is merely cancel existing contracts as if they didn't exist. The RFL recognise this and have set increasing requirements for home grown players which allow teams the time to develop young English players to a standard worthy of playing in the premier Rugby League competition. Whilst at the same time recognising the valuable contribution that longer serving overseas players have made to various clubs and British Rugby League by allowing their contracts to be exempted from the quota as long as they remain at the same club. This by definition is a temporary situation.'" There is still no need to add to the overseas players you cant get rid of is there? Not being able to get rid of some of them is no excuse for signing more and extending contracts. The reason Hull KR havent reached the 5 overseas player target is nothing to do with Legal requirements, its just another red herring, Its to do with their short-termist outlook. Quote No I'm not.'" you clearly are, which is why you go on to say...... Quote You're the one constantly berating other clubs for exactly the kind of signing that Leeds have just made.'" Because i havent when it has been in isolation, only when part of a pattern. You have the very definition of a straw man argument here Quote Let me remind you of recent comments by yourself on this subject. I don't have to search too hard, you made them a few weeks ago... Strange that one because you clearly seem to be suggesting that it is quality that counts in an Aussie signing, whereas now... Or maybe it is the quality that counts? I wish you'd make your mind up Smokey. Because if it really is about the number and not the quality then why the need for this comment? Seems to be another reference to quality there mate Still... '" ill just repost what i told you last time, maybe it will sink in now Quote ="SmokeyTA" and again you are desperately trying to confuse two issues. There needs to be fewer overseas players playing in our league. I have criticised Hull Kingston Australia for going into next season with 10 overseas players. It has been defended by arguing that they were 'needed' because there werent sufficient English players out there. I have proved this as nonsense by highlighting the quality of overseas players you have brought in, compared to the quality of british players out there. Now you are attempting to equate the signing of Ben Cross and his reflection on the youth development and commitment to British players of Leeds, with signings of Lovegrove, Fisher, Green and Clinton and the signing of all of those with thats reflection on HKA and their youth development and commitment to british players which is clearly idiotic even for you. To re-iterate, if Justin Morgan wants to go out and sign 5 park footballers from Australia and give 20 british lads a go, fine. I think it would be stupid and a poor decision but we cant legislate for coaches simply being crap. However if he is signing 10 overseas players then that needs to justified, and defending it by saying there isnt the comparable quality over here is nonsense when you are signing the likes of Lovegrove. '" Quote How right you are! Maybe Rovers should have done this...'" it would be infinitely better than filling the league with very average overseas players Quote But then maybe if it's alright for Leeds then it's alright for Rovers eh?'" Surely you arent equating 6 overseas players as the same as 10 and rovers youth development with Leeds? Because if not what you have put is disingenuous nonsense, and if so its just plain mental. Quote It's really surprising Leeds had to make this signing because... Makes you wonder why Leeds didn't manage to find a young prop as good as Korkidas or Lovegrove in the lower leagues really. Still since Leeds exemplary scouting system failed to find a half decent prop, maybe there aren't as many potential SL players out there as you'd think. Or maybe you are just being an @rse.'" Psssst, they did, Kyle Amor and Luke Ambler to add to Ian Kirke Not to mention the England Captain Adrian Morley who was produced by Leeds Academy, Danny Ward, Ryan Bailey, Nick Scruton, and Gareth Carvell and Ewan Dowes from outside RL, and Jay Pitts from the fringes of the other squads, But other than those 10, they probably havent In related news, Leeds sign another young lower league player www.therhinos.co.uk/news/15088.php