So Wakefield and Castleford boost the national profile of Super League?

If the situations were reversed would you really be suggesting that Widnes be kicked out in favour of either of these two clubs?

You're confusing licensing with the system we used to have where teams like Catalans and Gateshead were admitted. The reasoning behind that was to expand the sport geographically. Whilst licensing in the long term aims to do that, it also wants the strongest current heartland clubs in there. There is no reason for those heartland clubs to be given a permanent Super League place especially when they don't necessarily deserve one. We haven't boxed off Super League for all but expansion clubs, you've missed the whole point of licensing which is to improve the standard of all our clubs on and off the pitch. It's not just a tool for expansion.

Widnes would be potentially replacing a club (Wakefield) that they had comfortably better attendances than in Super League and in much better surroundings. Why therefore do we not deserve our chance yet they should be given a permanent place until an expansion club comes along? I like Wakey but as a club they have yet to deliver in key areas and if anything offer a worse prospect than they did in 2008.

Widnes have already contributed more to RL then Quins ever will IMO.



Go Chemics.

offer any more than the current bunch?? Lets start with away support shall we

No team in the Championship has more to offer than Castleford. Therefore Cas shouldn't need any protecting.

Rubbish. Why on earth should Castleford or any other club assume they are stronger than any club who have not had the chance to disprove it? I mean, really? An indefinite stay in the top flight for castleford? Why on earth do you think this should be the case?

Where did I say Castleford should have an indefinite stay in the top flight? All I said was that - on franchise criteria - no team in the Championship offers more than Castleford. The only thing that Cas can be put down is on stadia criteria, on and off the field in other areas, Cas are pretty much spot on with how the RFL want clubs to develop.

The only changes that should happen are where a club outside SL can offer more to the competition than a current club.

I disagree. Clubs in the second tier need a chance to prove themselves in the top flight. They wont ever be able to prove they can offer more than the SL stragglers in this division, it is too weak and will always be so under the licensing system. But the best candidates should be given a chance if there is a sign they are ready. Wakefield, Castleford, Salford, KR, Crusaders, Quins, none of these are undroppable. Keep teams out indefinitely who have fulfilled every criteria to be promoted and you will kill the teams in this division for good. Through dead mans shoes is not a fair way to run super league licenses.

Castleford have won nothing in the super league era, their crowds are not poor compared to some but hardly unbeatable and given a long term period in the championship you would probably not raise your head above the level of the rest of the SL hopefuls in any way. Given an extended run in Sl there are a number of teams who would offer at least as much as Castleford.

Ergo, Widnes are ahead of Castleford.

They are ahead of Salford, Wakefield, Harlequins and Crusaders also. Simple fact and obviously going to be shouted down by the fans of those said clubs who are at risk. It's natural to be subjective in that regard. Hopefully, the RFL won't be so blind when it comes to this years' and future year franchise applications. Those clubs at risk have had three years to make themselves special. They haven't done it and so it's only right they're dangled over the trap door. One lesson i hope that's learned from next years process is that promises don't mean a hill of beans.

I think some of the problem is that the ones in the old relegation places regularly are seen as the untouchables.
8th then 9th is not stragglers yet we are favourites, our attendances are not the smallest and yet again we are favourites.
Widnes will be put in to even up the Yorks Lancs numbers, but put yourself in others shoes and ask if your club was following the franchise blueprint how you would feel to still be stood on the edge....
p.s. If the only way a club is promoted is because of a better ground then we really are at Red Halls whim.

Don't seem to remember many of your fellow cas fans voicing your concern the last time over this possibility.



Oh cry me a river. You're on the edge? Some clubs never got a chance to stand on the plateau and thanks to this system some never will. Put myself in your place? You got the franchise, you've not been hard done to. We're all trying to follow the franchise blueprint, it is much more difficult for some than others, you seem to be forgetting the favourable position you are in. As Wakefield are currently many people's favourites to go down, you have ample time to make yourself something more than a mid to lower super league team and you've had more chances than some teams will get so stop whining.



You keep telling yourself that's the one and only reason any team will be promoted. There is literally no reason to keep you in SL indefinitely at others expense. If your demoted, so be it.

Point 1.
Widnes should be in SL in 2012.
Point 2. (directed at roofs and the monkey from widnes who jumped on his bandwagon)
I have looked hard and long at the RFL's criteria (the published ones anyway) and see not one mention of away fans. What I have seen is limits on the number of overseas players.....something one ot two teams should really be addressing.
Point 3.
Widnes [uWILL[/u be in SL in 2012....or the RFL may as well just pack up their tent....head and shoulders above the other teams named above.

I

So tell me what your club offers that ours doesn't?

Badly run super league clubs are a complete farce, is yours one of them?

So you've studied the Widnes Vikings 2012 franchise bid in great detail then to come to this conclusion I take it? Because you certainly seem to be an expert on the subject.

My heart bleeds, no really it does because it's not as if Widnes have ever been in a position where our top flight status has been under threat even though we weren't in a relegation position... Yes us Widnes fans have been lording it up over recent seasons haven't we.

absolutely

widnes will be another warrington in SL

good ground, rich sugar daddy, they have history and tradition, will have good away fans.

tick, tick, tick. no other champ. side comes close to widnes.

once widnes get in SL they wont be leaving it

Id like to see Widnes in SL

Reality is there is only Widnes close to being a SL club, just expand the comp by one and bring in a bye week. As said they will be no stronger (and prob no weaker) than whoever they replace.

No brainer, Widnes and Toulouse in, Salford and Wakefield out

What that says to me then is the criteria needs changing.

If Widnes are in SL in 2012 (and if not it will be one of the biggest injustices in the history of the game IMO), I think they will probably bring at least 1000 to CP. 1000 people paying an averaging of £15, + beer, food and programme sales probably equates to around £17k or £18k (just for one league game). That is a hell of a lot more then what Quins and certain other clubs contribute to teams.

What you fail to understand is that it's not about clubs saying 'We take loads away so other teams should return the favour'. If Widnes take 1000 fans to several away games (and I would have thought for games at Wigan, Saints, Wire and possibly Salford it will be significantly more), that means on that particular day a strong number of people from Widnes are spending their cash on British RL. They are essentially investing in the game, something clubs like Quins and Crusaders do not have (although Crusaders do deserve credit for the excellent backing they took to Huddersfield in the Play-Offs).

Bascially Widnes in SL will contribute more to British RL as a whole through better home attendances then many SL clubs (inc yours by a big margin), and taking more away then many teams. Widnes in NL1 brought a hell of a lot more then Broncos did for a big Cup games years ago (the year you got to Wembley).

IMO Widnes in SL will be good for the competition - the three afforementioned clubs will have strong crowds against them for a start, + I would expect Widnes to take loads to Crusaders been only 30-35 miles apart. It's win-win IMO.

Your sham of a club was 100% dependent on overseas players for a number of years - don't be so f'ing hypocritical.



Like I've said before, your youth policy has been forced, not chosen.

Hasn't everyone's youth policy been forced, not chosen, in some way or another?

The Monkey?

At what point did I mention that was in the RFL's criteria ya yorkshire pud. We were talking about what we have to offer that some SL teams don't

Kinda, but what I meant was Quins have had to bring more through then other teams simply because they cannot afford to bring in experienced quality players to support the learning and development of the youth (due to been skint, e.g. because they have such woeful support) hence them been poor on the pitch at the mo.

I think we will take 1000 + supporters to more than half of the clubs in SL. Quite a few of the current SL clubs wont be doing this so this will be good for the competition. We took 1100 i rekon to Keighly this year and 7,8,900 fans to other clubs in Yorkshire. I can see 2000+ going to places like Warrington and St Helens and if we get the nod i can see us averaging 7,000-8,000 for the first two seasons.

People go on about us not playing well in this division and our team would be hopeless in SL. Lets take Halifax and Featherstone for example, two best teams this year, if they got the nod do people seriously think that the team they put out in SL would be similar to the one they have now? Not a chance. The salary cap rises by over £1m if we went to SL, whoever goes up would bring in at least 10 players or so. It hasn't worried me about where we finished this year and the quality of the side we have had out. Its allowed us to play some of our younger players who are 17,18 or 19. I can see these youngsters like Craven, Brown, Gerrard, Kelly and a couple of others going very very far in the game.