13 is a vital position and to say he’s the most creative is mind numbing. I’m sorry but the most creative 13 in the world would of created something against Leeds in a challenge cup match.

Whilst he’s been fantastic in the league and he did well for England. Something just doesn’t quite add up when he can't perform a winning move when it matters.

couple of great hits from burgess in the game vs penrith last week

i'm very impressed with burgess's second row partner at souths dave taylor this season - already an origin call up and looking good for the aussie side for the four nations

Carl Ablett is currently the best second rower =#FFFFFFin leeds.

Not even the best 2nd rower at Leeds.

Who?

At Leeds? In Super League? In the World?? Which do you mean??

He's nowhere near Langley, O'Loughlin, Ellis, Burgess, Tomkins or Westwood for England.

To say Ablett is nowhere near Langley or Westwood is imo a ridiculous statement. From what i've seen of him, he's playing really well, and is starting to get some of the credit he deserves.
I think he should possibly be in the england squad for the 4 nations, if he keeps playing as he is. Its a shame for him that he plays in the one position we have a decent amount of strength in depth, cant see him gettin much, if any game time for England because of this.

Go on Gareth lad! A great product of the Wakey academy, he deserves all the success he has achieved so far and more. One of the Wakefield greats.

tbh i rate ablett as a good player but i dont see what he would offer England that we don't already have. I rate Westwood at club level, he's been PHENOMINAL for us at times but compared to the worlds greats no matter how hard that guys trains, he's just not got it the same way Ablett, Langley et al haven't.
O'Loughlin imo has, no he's not the best in the world but to dismiss him as some do is ridiculous, tbh I think any NRL team would take him and the all round game he offers (can do multiple roles to international standard) is brilliant. Any team would take him but he isn't a player that would make a world XIII but is a top bracket player that Westwood, Langley cant offer. In most club teams he would be a ball playing loose but at int level he'd be a super solid tackling machine better than any in our division imo, top player.

Why do you like O'Loughlin so much? Is it the curly hair? Very over rated player.

I'm an Aussie NRL fan and believe O'Loughlin would fairly easily make it into any NRL side.

Sheens just named Ellis the best import to ever play for the club.

Ellis has been outstanding in the games I have seen in the past couple of months and the Aussie commentators have been full of praise of his performances.

At present Ellis, Burgess, Thaiday, Blair and Andrew Ryan are the stand out players every week. Burgess has it all, hes dynamic in defence and attack and should develop into the top 2nd rower in rugby league.

still think burgess would be a better 13 than a 2nd rower....playing 13 gives him license to pop up anywhere rather than being stuck to the left or right channel if he's was a 2nd rower...



as for sam thaiday...he looks good...cos he runs at centres & wingers...or sideways...

I suggest you view some stats then.

O'Loughlin > Ellis

=#8000FFWhich one was voted world player of the year in their position 2 years running? who had the balls to go play in the NRL? who is regularly picked for GB/England?

There's no competition, Ellis is a far superior player to O'Loughlin, and not to mention, for the 2nd time in this thread, they play different positions.

O'Loughlins usually injured come international time.
He was the best forward in the 07 series imo

I wish people would drop the club bias when looking at players ability. Few on here seem able to do it as is illustrated on this and other threads. Ellis and Thaiday IMO are the best second rowers in the world. Along with Burgess would probably make the best back row in the world. Shaun O aint bad but there are aussies that are better. Dont mean that Sean could not make it in the NRL.

Don't forget Watmough and Gallen, if your all talknig about worlds top back rowers.

I know, but it hurts some for players from their team not to be mentioned.

I dont think many are being biased.
The rest of the post is pretty spot on but I said I don't think there's any team in the world with THREE backrowers better so he'd go alright anywhere

There is plenty of bias on this and the england squad thread. A wigan fan on this one is certain Sean O is the best back rower in the World!! Plenty of bias on the England squad thread too. A lot coming from Leeds supporters who think their players are unrivalled. When talking about the best of whatever on here too many see club colours and everything else goes out of the window.

he was played in the 2nd row for a majority of that series was'nt he?