As much as Cas and Wakefield have competed well in the last 2 years, when other teams have got it right they’ve done better. Wigan and Warrington got it wrong in 2017 but when they got it right in 2018 they won a GF and reach both finals between them. Leeds and Hull got it wrong in 2018 but when they got it right they won the GF and CC between them. Whilst one bad year each their best was still better than 2 5th place finishes and the worst GF showing ever.

Can these smaller clubs rely on 2 of the bigger clubs flopping every year? Unlikely, when the bigger clubs get it right they do better and for various reasons they’ve had their problems in recent seasons, don’t think they will this year.

Warrington
Saints
Wakefield
Wigan
Cas
Leeds
Hull Kr
Catalans
Huddersfield
Hull
Salford
London

Saints
Wigan
Wire
Leeds
Catalans
Cas
Wakey
Hull KR
Hull
Hudds
Salford
London

Pies GF winners, Wire CC winners

What are you talking about rely on other clubs flopping? They finished above those teams because they played better than them teams throughout the year? You can talk about clubs flopping all you want they are facts... This is a salary capped sport, meaning that on the field every team is on a level pegging throughout (Yes we spend below the cap, but that is our own clubs fault so in my eyes we cant moan about that).

I can see how you might come up with that argument for Wakefield, even if I do disagree with it but to Cas have been playing quality rugby for the past 4 or 5 years and building.. seriously? Get of your pedestal, throwing a shed load of money at a few aussies has brought you back out of the wood work all of a sudden, outside of those players your squad is bang average imo, your 2 best players last season were Hall and Moon and they have gone leaving you heavily reliant on 3 overseas players and a new coach... the likelihood is you wont be as good as Cas next year, I dont think you will be anywhere near them if I am honest, and there is a good chance you wont finish above Wakefield either.

Moon wasn’t anywhere near our best 2 players last year and Hall whilst a great player didn’t get any service.

You and others can claim the Leeds squad is bang average.....YET most of them have Grand Final rings and that’s a FACT and reality is only Wigan can match that claim.

Of our top 20...12 of them are Grand Finals winners and of the other 8 you have 2 Tongan internationals and an Aussie international and NRL GF winner......does your or other teams have that proven ability to win the main prize?

What does a grand final tell you about individual players? Before you answer that question just remember Ryan Bailey has 6 of them... A very successful team carried by the likes of Danny Mag, Robbie Burrows, Sinfield etc... Now you are panic buying, throwing cash around hoping to fix something up.... Throwing money at a player that didn`t even want to come to England in the first place! That would ring alarm bells for me. I rated JJB now he is getting old and slowing down, Stevie Ward is a great player if you can get him on the field and playing, It is a risk putting a lot of hope and pressure on 3 big signings for me when you could have taken a whole different approach.

You’re right that one player can win a GF that isn’t that good.....12 players though, that’s stretching the “average” claim you’re clinging to.

I’m guessing you spoke to Trent Merrin personally and know what his true feelings were on coming to England? Oh no....you read a story online so it must be true and it tells you how exactly he’ll go on the field.

No but he spoke to Wayne Bennett and you can go and watch, listen or read him saying Trent called him personally and told him he did not want to go to England or is Wayne Bennett lying now?

Quote ="homme vaste"No but he spoke to Wayne Bennett and you can go and watch, listen or read him saying Trent called him personally and told him he did not want to go to England or is Wayne Bennett lying now? '" https://www.5thtackle.com/2018/12/17/tr ... er-league/ And you can read this where Bennett told him he should join Super League and Merrin says it was a goal of his to come over to Super League. Is Merrin lying?

Quote ="homme vaste"No but he spoke to Wayne Bennett and you can go and watch, listen or read him saying Trent called him personally and told him he did not want to go to England or is Wayne Bennett lying now? '" https://www.5thtackle.com/2018/12/17/tr ... er-league/ And you can read this where Bennett told him he should join Super League and Merrin says it was a goal of his to come over to Super League. Is Merrin lying?

Quote ="ThePrinter"https://www.5thtackle.com/2018/12/17/trent-merrin-wayne-bennett-convinced-me-to-join-super-league/ And you can read this where Bennett told him he should join Super League and Merrin says it was a goal of his to come over to Super League. Is Merrin lying?'" Well he isn`t exactly going to say I would have preferred not to come but I had no other options once he`s signed is he? Maybe look at something before he was a Leeds Rhinos Employee? "Trent Merrin contacted me last Sunday and said he was being pushed out of Penrith and they had a deal for him to play in England for the next few years," "Trent said he would prefer not to go to England and he rang me looking for advice and asked if there was anything I could do." https://www.triplem.com.au/story/trent- ... ack-116591 Basically asking Wayne to get him a deal in Australia

Quote ="ThePrinter"https://www.5thtackle.com/2018/12/17/trent-merrin-wayne-bennett-convinced-me-to-join-super-league/ And you can read this where Bennett told him he should join Super League and Merrin says it was a goal of his to come over to Super League. Is Merrin lying?'" Well he isn`t exactly going to say I would have preferred not to come but I had no other options once he`s signed is he? Maybe look at something before he was a Leeds Rhinos Employee? "Trent Merrin contacted me last Sunday and said he was being pushed out of Penrith and they had a deal for him to play in England for the next few years," "Trent said he would prefer not to go to England and he rang me looking for advice and asked if there was anything I could do." https://www.triplem.com.au/story/trent- ... ack-116591 Basically asking Wayne to get him a deal in Australia

Quote ="homme vaste"Well he isn`t exactly going to say I would have preferred not to come but I had no other options once he`s signed is he? Maybe look at something before he was a Leeds Rhinos Employee? "Trent Merrin contacted me last Sunday and said he was being pushed out of Penrith and they had a deal for him to play in England for the next few years," "Trent said he would prefer not to go to England and he rang me looking for advice and asked if there was anything I could do." https://www.triplem.com.au/story/trent- ... ack-116591 Basically asking Wayne to get him a deal in Australia '" So basically he said she said. Maybe Brough and Kopczak would’ve preferred more money elsewhere but the only offer they had and had to settle for was Wakefield and their confirmed well under budget money. Let’s be honest was Wakefield the first choice for most of your players given your huge below the SC budget?

Quote ="homme vaste"Well he isn`t exactly going to say I would have preferred not to come but I had no other options once he`s signed is he? Maybe look at something before he was a Leeds Rhinos Employee? "Trent Merrin contacted me last Sunday and said he was being pushed out of Penrith and they had a deal for him to play in England for the next few years," "Trent said he would prefer not to go to England and he rang me looking for advice and asked if there was anything I could do." https://www.triplem.com.au/story/trent- ... ack-116591 Basically asking Wayne to get him a deal in Australia '" So basically he said she said. Maybe Brough and Kopczak would’ve preferred more money elsewhere but the only offer they had and had to settle for was Wakefield and their confirmed well under budget money. Let’s be honest was Wakefield the first choice for most of your players given your huge below the SC budget?

Little bit of a difference been that Brough and Kops live in West Yorkshire and don`t have to move 9,000 miles away and settle in a whole new country and culture, my point wasn`t that Leeds wasn`t his first option, my point was he did not want to move to the other side of the world, all I am saying is with the track record of players settling over here that would ring alarm bells for me.

it's not like you to talk Trinity down is it

By the way, it's two top 5 finishes since CC tool over, for what it's worth.

Anyway how exactly have they strengthened much more?

ATEOTD imo on-field success is more about your existing team & keeping the best of them and adding a few bits of quality and depth to that, plus a good coach - which is what I think Trinity and a few other teams have done. Not wholesale changes or one good signing.
Hudds have basically just brought in Uate who's no doubt a good player and Frawley who's less so, Oh aye and Grix from us, plus holmes from Fev and young Butterworth from the Bulls
Hull KR has had a huge clearout, so will have needed to bring in plenty of new faces, which as a team that's been through similar a few times, they'll take time to gel as a side anyway. long story short I'll have trinity's top 25 players over Hull KR's or Hudds tbh, no offense to them.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll disagree but hey ho.

Always a bit of pot luck picking at this time of year, with the usual injuries and form issues teams go through, anyway I'll go.

Saints
Wire
Wigan
Cas
Wakey
Leeds
Catalans
Hull
Hudds
Hull KR
Salford
London

Wire GF
Saints Cup

Cas
Saints
Wire
Wigan
Hull
Huddersfield
Leeds
Cats
Wakefield
HKR
Salford
London

Ok so if you knock his comment back saying they weren’t the best players, who were the top 2 at Leeds last season?

I’ve noticed you’re always quick to dismiss other posters comments but never actually back it up with anything.

1. Toronto
2. Widnes
3. Toulouse
4. Halifax
5. Bradford
6. Leigh
7. Featherstone
8. Sheffield
9. Batley
10. York
11. Dewsbury
12. Barrow
13. Rochdale
14. Swinton

Champions Toronto

Can't beat a Wakey/Leeds arguement, seems to be a common theme this off season.

Really hard to predict this year, London apart it looks really tight on paper, here are my predictions.

Saints
Warrington
Leeds
Wigan
Hull
Wakey
Catalans
Cas
Rovers
Hudds
Salford
London

Saints
Warrington
Wigan
Leeds
Catalans
Wakefield
Cas
Huddersfield
Hull FC
Hull KR
Salford
London


Toronto
Toulouse
Widnes
Halifax
Bradford
Featherstone
Sheffield
Leigh
York
Batley
Dewsbury
Barrow
Swinton
Rochdale

1. Sintellins
2. Wolfs
3. Wigun
4. Wildcats
5. Cats
6. Tigers
7. LUFC
8. FC
9. Dirty Old town
10. Shudds
11. KR
12. Fulham

Warrington
Saints
Catalans
Wigan
Leeds
Wakey
Cas
Giants
Hull
Rovers
Salford
London

Can see maybe HKR finishing above Hull this year if their new players gel.
But will go for the above for now.

Ok that hurt my brain a little bit reading that, a few extra full stops would definitely have helped!

Re: Avoiding the MPG. Leeds were handed 2 points against Salford by the ref as Myler cheated to get you a late match winning penalty. Ok so even without that penalty it would have been a draw but that one point would have meant you'd avoided being in the MPG by a single point. Not exactly ripping up trees was it?

Re: Leeds strengthening. Yes you've signed a couple of decent Aussies (tho I've heard Hurrell isn't the same player he was) but you've got an old pack and you've lost your best winger (the only world class player you had).

Re: Wakey. Far more strength in depth in that Wakey squad than you give them credit for and an already huge forward pack reinforced by one of SL's most underrated forwards (Kopczak). I'm sure most SL fans would take Wakey's pack over Leeds' (except Leeds fans of course). Throw in a few backs with pace to burn and if they don't finish comfortably in the 8 then they've seriously underperformed. If everyone on here is correct and the whipping boys are Salford and London then they basically need to finish above 2 other teams. Shouldn't be too much of a problem IMO. Don't think HKR will be in the mix either... yes they've strengthened but in all honesty they were way short of a top 8 team last year.

Cas are a very overrated side. They’re a team with largely bang average players and have been punching above their weight for a few years due to a great coach and other sides underperforming. There will come a point were their refusal to sign any big name players will cost them and I fancy that could happen this season. I am surprised by the amount of people who have put Cas in their top 3 on social media. Mata’utia as an outside bet for MOS is a ridiculous prediction as well.

I’d go for:
1. Saints
2. Wire
3. Wigan
4. Leeds
5. Catalans
6. Cas
7. Hull fc
8. Wakey
9. Huddersfield
10. Salford
11. Hull Kr
12. London.

GF: Saints
CC: Wire