I do however agree with Bennetts comment that we are good enough to win but we don't put it together.

There was no one player in the aussie team that were head and shoulders above ours.

They play consistent, they play pretty much error free, they take their chances.

We made as many chances, we didn't take them. Some individuals made more mistakes.

Take cam smith or Thurston and put him in our team, we wpuld still lose as collectively we make too many errors across the park.

Frustrating as hell.

Honestly felt like I was watching a re-run of any game between England and Aus in the last 10 years. So disappointing. And of course with this being Rugby League we have to wait a full year before we can have another crack.

Clearly the main thing we lack is direction from our halves. Can't believe I'm going to say this but I reckon Matty Smith would have offered more. Was he unlucky not to get a call up after a successful international campaign last year?

Agree Smith would offer a whole lot more than Widdop. Widdop is just poor. Never seen anything in him to suggest he should play international rugby league.

The biggest disappointment for me was the pack. The backline actually did pretty well, and the halves were garbage but we already knew that (Kevin Brown ffs, he wouldn't get a gig at any top 4 team). However we thought we would have the upper hand (or at least a level one) in the forwards, and actually we got bullied. Hill and Graham did what they always do, and Bateman at least had a dig, but the rest were terrible. Sam Burgess is a husk of the player that went to Union, and his brothers might look the part, but there at at least half a dozen props not picked that should be in the side before them. Whitehead I think is good enough but wasn't at the races today, and Cooper is a perfectly decent player, but as with the Burgesses you have to wonder if he would have ever played for England if he hadn't gone to the NRL.

As for the rest of the team, Lomax did some pretty good things, McGillvray was the best winger on the pitch by a mile and then some, Hall is dependable but seems to have lost his pace, I would prefer Briscoe there tbh. Brown isn't and never has been good enough at this level (I don't want to sound too harsh on the guy, he's a great pro and has had a good career, but he really isn't), Widdop is not much better.

The halfback situation is the biggest worry ahead of the world cup. As bad as the pack were we do have plenty of option there, but it's hard to see how we can improve the halves. In hindsight I would have liked to see Williams alongside either Smith or Sneyd. Both have limitations but at least there offer a kicking game and a little bit of direction. Hopefully someone emerges next season. I've got high hopes for Declan Patton from what I've seen, but he does have some way to go. Or maybe look at moving Lomax to 6 with Shaul getting a chance at full back.

Been saying the same about Widdop for years, and been ridiculed often for it. People think because he's playing in the NRL, he must be great, he's far from it. He's a manufactured half. Yes he's used to playing against NRL defences, he's also used to losing against them and creating bugger all in terms of chances for his team - he's very much brought his NRL form from the last 2 years with him. GARBAGE!

He a typical Melbourne 'support act'. Knows how to play to a strict game plan (Thus allowing Cronk, Smith and Slater to do their thing), and will never divert from it, playing his simple role in the Melbourne team, he looked effective. But it was clear he was never going to be a top class playmaker in his own right. So many clubs have been burnt spending a fortune on players who look great in the Melbourne system, but who are gash once they leave it. Kevin Proctor is another who's just signed for big money with the Titans - watch him go there and be a steady Eddie like nearly all the others that leave Melbourne.

Some very valid points there. I was a bit worried about us getting a dud when we signed Mahe Fonua for the reasons you mention, but he seems to be an exception.

Widdop is very frustrating to watch. He clearly has a lot of ability, but doesn't seem to have the first clue how to put the pieces together.

I go with this. We just don't have the depth. Kids who are good at sport tend to be good at more than one, and if they are going to try for professional standard it eventually comes down to the one they a) have an aptitude for and b) can actually make pay. The rewards for playing pro-RL are too low if you can turn you and to something else. I always think of a player like Stephen Myler, a fringe SL player who managed to carve a very decent career out of RU because what he could do was well rewarded in RU.

In an alternative universe, Tomkins and Lomax would have played predominantly in the halves for their clubs, Kyle Eastmond would still be playing RL and Danny Brough would not be pretending he's Scottish, and we would look pretty good at 6 and 7. We may even have won today.

It's like we lost a whole generation of potential international halves by being obsessed about putting them at FB. You could maybe add ratchford to that list also.

The scary thing is there's virtually nothing coming through the Junior system to replace those who've played today.

Ben Currie, if he ever fully recovers from his injury
Oliver Gildart is a prospect but is probably too light for international centre
Tom Johnstone and Dom Manfredi on the wings

but who else is there. . . . ?

As a sport we've made decisions that are shrinking our player base to critical levels and we've all but destroyed the player pathways. Removing any kind of selective process below age U16 and disbanding the Reserves has mortaly wounded the development process. Even if we reversed those decions tomorrow it will take 5 to 10 years before the system starts showing signs of recovery.

The RFL, The Community Game, BARLA and most of all the club centric, selfish CEOs need to pull their heads out from up their derrières and soon or they'll be no point in holding international competitions.

I'd say one lesson, particularly for the backs is that we are some way off in strength and conditioning (again). Joe Burgess, Hardaker and now Percival are way too lightweight. Even Kallum Watkins if he played in Aus would probably add another half stone.

Halfback is clearly our biggest problem. Our best hope for next year vat least is Tomkins getting fit and (wherever he plays) adding some potency out wide. Its possible Aussiegate may rear its head though, as Bennett was clearly unimpressed by the options available.

Our error rates are way too high. The Burgess twins are always liable to drop the ball cold at some stage, and Sam also. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though as I think we'll see a bigger and stronger Sam Burgess next year. He lost a lot of power trying to become a Union centre and hasn't had an off season to bulk up.

As for Bennett, he went with a squad which was largely expected. His aim is next year's WC, and he's a very smart operator. I suspect he will have given all the squad goals for next year, but for some there won't be a second chance. He will basically used this tournament as an opportunity to see what players can do, and how they react on the big stage. I sort of see where he's coming from when he talks about confidence - a lot of our mistakes come from players pushing things in a way they wouldn't in club games.

As for those suggesting Wane. Please. His up and at 'em approach failed miserably in successive WCC games (including making Roosters reserve grade halfbacks look like the best in the world). He has zero experience of winning against the best, and virtually none of coaching against them. Ditto every other SL coach. I still think getting Bennett is a massive coup - if anything for this 4N it was a year too late.

I think Sutcliffe has all the ability to make an international class half but Im not sure he could put it on the pitch under pressure.
I also like Dec Patton at Wire an hope that TS has the guts to drop Gidley for him.

Do you think maybe you have your Bennet blinkers on, living in a city that is obsessed with him?
He had the best squad in the NRL this year but finished outside the top 4, and we seem to be worse than we were in 2014 even though you would say we probably have better players now.

A few observations having watched it back:
First half we blew three decent chances. Watkins broke down the right and instead of committing the centre and passing inside (where he had more support, he just shipped it out to JM). Real lack of awareness. Then you've got Percival's bombed effort. We were still well in the game after half time and had Burgess gathered that pass by Hodgson he was in under the sticks. In that regard it was a similar story to NZ, we just lack the composure and execution when we're in good field position.

Bennett obviously wasn't happy with the combinations he had and with the World Cup in mind, you can understand why he chose to tinker. After all, he doesn't get a lot of time with the players as it is and needs to look at how all his players handle big pressure situations. At this level you don't get many chances to shine and if you're not doing what WB asks, then you should be swapped out for someone that will.

But then you've got the problem that is Super League. At the moment it just encourages mediocrity. P&R has seen the death of the reserves because teams are too scared of losing SL status. P&R should be scrapped and SL reduced to 10 teams for at least 5 years or so, to get the competition back up to standard. Also the top teams are almost encouraged to play at 60% effort for around 80% of the season. No wonder when it comes to giving 110% over three consecutive matches we're not up to it.

Not that I'm suggesting Wane, but did you miss him taking Brisbane to golden point in 2015? I'd hardly call that 'failing miserably' given the cap differences between the two sides and the fact we were missing Lockers on the day.

Widdop is a "Steadie Eddie" standoff in the NRL, not exceptional, but he plays every week at a higher level than any of our other halves. Maybe Williams has the potential, I also like the look of Patton at Wire, but we need them to play against NRL standard opposition every week.

I find it frustrating when people advocate for Gale or Brown or any other halfback who looks classy against soft SL defences, until such time as the Kiwis and Aussies actually play a soft SL style defence (which is realistically never), then those players are not going to get us anywhere. I'll take "Steadi Eddie" Widdop every time over a more flashy halfback who only does it on a flat track.

People are banging on about halfbacks but we beat the aussies in 2001 with Sculthorpe and a 21 year old Sinfield in the halves! The key to all the wins against them I've seen (01, 04, 06) IMO was getting stuck into them for the full 80. When we give them no respect and make it uncomfortable for them, they can be beaten by a technically inferior side.

We just didn't look like we had the attitude that we wanted to get in their faces and beat them IMO. Nothing made it more apparent than Watkins backing off and apologising when Cronk started shoving him. Watkins should have been dreaming of an invitation to batter one of their best players with no forwards around to protect him! Senior wouldn't have needed asking twice, I wonder what Inglis/Dugan would have done to Brown/Widdop in the same circumstances.

Focus is also a big issue, 2 missed kicks for touch, not numbering up at a scrum being the obvious examples. We very rarely see that in SL so no excuse for our best players doing it at international level!

Agreed. The team that was out there could have beaten the Aussies if the mistakes were cut out:

Missed touch lines x 2
Dropped balls in try scoring positions x 2/3
Breaks blown by poor sections (Hall and Watkins)

We did the same v the Kiwis, created enough to win the game but didn't execute it fully.

Take those chances and cut the mistakes and even with the same players we're in the game.

Same old story though, it's being comfortable playing close to error free football every week that will move us forward not necessarily a different set of players.

I agree with Grimmy (above) to the extent that we needed to be much better motivated than we were. Burgess showed some fight (literally) when the game was over. I expected our much vaunted pack to put up more of a tough display than they did.

The appointment of Bennett over well qualified British coaches (including Steve McNamara) hasn't worked, in fact we have regressed. The displays in all four of his games this autumn have been poor. I fully expect him to do what all Aussies tend to do once the going gets rough - and you all know what I mean - which Super League club hasn't had a big name Aussie terminate their contract early on the grounds of 'family reasons'?

We needed to pick Williams over Brown and Gale. There is a reason why Kev Brown and Luke Gale are at middle ranked teams. They aren't good enough to play at the top teams. People whingeing that only the top teams like Wigan and Saints get their players picked - well, there is a reason for that, the top teams come top because they have the best players, not because of divine right.

Bennett complained that we don't have a winning mentality. Tell that to Shaun Wane.

Quite sobering when you see that half of the England 24-man squad was supplied by just three club acadamies. Where are these supposed "hotbeds" of RL talent that we keep hearing about, because there sure as hell aren't in the East Riding, Cumbria and the Calder Valley.

Hodgson and Taylor from the East Riding in this squad - which could arguably have had Houghton and Shaul too

Whilst I may be being overly harsh, two players produced by two clubs in what we're constantly told is RL country doesn't sound that impressive, but accept it's not the worst example.

I keep hearing on here that we should pack it in trying to grow the game away from the heartlands and focus on where we're strongest. If this is the best that the stronghold of the game can come up with, we may as well pack it in now.

It's a strange one really. As you know, I have my reservations about Wane, but I do wonder whether he would be better in terms of instilling the level of aggression and determination required, particularly as he is British and is therefore as frustrated as the rest of us with the aussies almost invariably beating us. The problem of course is that he is hardly a master tactician, and I do wonder whether the way he gets determination from players would be as effective when he isn't developing a relationship with them every day for years. Overall I think the appointment of Bennett made sense even though it was harsh on McNamara, and given his CV it makes sense to stick with him to see what he can do in the World Cup after another year with them.

As for the halfbacks, I agree but for different reasons. It was daft to pick Brown in the squad given that he is 32 and has not played a competitive international. The only way he should have been in was if he was good enough to be first choice. Otherwise it's really shortsighted, I'd have had Sneyd in the squad instead just for him to get the experience of being around the squad, and a game against Scotland. Gale I can understand more, he is four years younger than Brown and accustomed to being the main man who needs to make things happen against technically superior opposition. If it had worked, we could have been sorted for 4 years or so with him developing with the experience. However, it didn't, and realistically I'd say he needed to take that opportunity given his age. Next year we need to look to the future and pick Williams + 1 (needs to be an organiser with a good kicking game, likely still Widdop) to maximise his development. Hall and McGillvary (both 'middle 8s' this year) were two of our only players to come out with credit from the tournament so I definitely wouldn't agree about only picking from the top teams.

I don't think that tactics are that important in International rugby as Bennett's tactics are hardly complex - unless I'm missing something (which is highly likely!). I think Wane would have been able to motivate the team in a way that Bennett couldn't - he can't really lead a rallying call against the Aussie b'stards-being one himself!

That said I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong about Bennett and I really don't want Wane to be introduced to the hate-a-thon that would inevitably ensue when we lose (I leave that to Wigan fans

).

I shelled out money to see all three of England's games and I feel that we didn't put our best foot forward at all. The atmosphere was like a snooker hall at both Coventry and London. Quite how stadiums that are half full can help the national team I'm not sure. I'd have played the three games at Wigan, Leeds and Hull and to hell with growing the game outside the heartlands until we have a winning team to be proud of, that people will be interested in coming to see play.

So he's just the man behind the curtain with the megaphone?


The Wizard of Oz, indeed.