not in the games ive seen in the NRL and state of orgin.

Do tell, how many games have you watched?

Well the SOO the play the balls were a joke, if that is the best standard of RL there is, I'll keep Super League thanks.

It was like watching two Wigan teams with the ammount of spoiling in the ruck that was going on.

If the PTBs were much quicker, then scooting hookers would be the choice du jour. As it stands they aren't.

See Smith,C. and Ennis,M. for reference.

Not many granted but there seems to be more wrestling and not as many easy meters to be made from scoots

You are quite correct. The emphasis is working the ball carrier in the collision, as opposed to on the floor. As soon as a rule comes into force, coaches will find a way to find a workaround.

First time you've been right in your life.

Yip did go over the top but it seems to me that however good any player is, as long as he plays for Wigan, he is only ever going to get grudging respect from a good few of the posters on here.

By the way, he didn't do that badly in the last 4 nations. Seeing that it was his first run out, at the tender age of 19, I'd say compared to some of the other seasoned internationals, he did pretty good.

Name a better FB in super league than Tomkins? How many times has he carved open some of the best teams in SL and sidestepped people to make them completely average. If you put billy slater in the england team for the 4N last year he would of made no impact whatsoever our 3 quarters and a threat and the aussies basically dropped off the centre or winger they were marking and came out the line to stop tomkins.

Tomkins needs to go to the NRL end of along with roby. If we have our stand off, Hooker and Full back all playing in the NRL that will make up the spine of our team and they will be tried and tested against Aussie and Kiwi opposition.

I'm confident that he will stand out against the Exiles on friday.

That's bollox. Your OTT response was to my post, and I have never said or implied any such thing.

ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS READ WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY SAY.



.... and I'll stand by what I said, I watched the match full of an expectation that did not materialise. At times he was like a rabbit in car headlights. But as I said, he is young, is playing outstanding club rugby and hopefully he has improved enough to give the exiles a tough time.

I would like nothing more than to see Tomkins (or any british back, wigan or otherwise) carve up the Aussies.

He was definitely in the top 5, but due to his hype and form in SL it was a little disappointing. But as you mentioned, so was everybody else. I think Tomkins is a very talented player and has a bright future ahead of him. I do hope he sorts out his niggling side though because it truly ruins everybody's opinion on him.

Sam Tomkins fails to reproduce his SL form in an England shirt becuase of the way the England team is set up to play: one-out rugby. Until we get a proper coach who will play an expansive game and pick the right team (Sinfield at stand-off?!?), the better players that we do have will fail to shine. If you look at the vast majority of breaks Tomkins makes in SL, they come off the back of a set move from either or both of Wigans halves. For England the basic plan was to truck it up the middle for four tackles then possibly throw it back to Tmkins to see what he could do, which was invariably get smashed by five defenders. As good as he is, he can't create gaps out of nothing against the Aussies and Kiwis on his own. Who can? The breaks Benji Marshall made in the Four Nations Final last year came from miss passes and dummy runners, something England never even attempted

Finally someone with common sense, if you have Marshall, Slater, Lockyer, Cooper, Inglis, they wouldn't be able to do anything if you give them the ball to run at 5 defenders with no dummy runners or options they wont do anything they'll just get tackled. Fortunately for the Aussies and Kiwis they have coaches who know what they are doing.

You ought to phone the RFL straightaway and demand to lecture the coaching staff and squad. Obviously, they will never have heard of this revolutionary concept you identify of "dummy runners", and may not even believe you, but still, even now it may not be too late. Make the call now. You owe it to your country.

Did you see the England v Oz game last year? Five drives for a kick (and a rubbish kick usually) every set. Simplistic doesn't begin to describe it

Excellent use of sarcasm there by the way. Everybody loves sarcasm

thats the limit of McNamara's coaching knowledge...............no seriously...its true

Nice use of Sarcasm but if you watch last years 4N we didn't use any and didn't have any plays allowing Tomkins any space to run at the Aussies/Kiwis.

If they have heard of Dummy Runners why didn't they use them?

Its surprising how many average NRL players come over here and prove to be.... average SL players. Likewise, players that haven't exactly set the SL alight are able to return down under and hold down a regular place in an NRL 17.

So to suggest that 2 of the standout players in SL (who just happen to be English) wouldn't be able to cope in the NRL is laughable.

I didn't realise his knowlege that exstensive!!!!

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Maybe the NRL players came for a Holiday and a laugh?
Many were offered 2 or 3 times what the NRL would pay, Mercenaries are a fickle bunch.
The fact Many Aussies found the English Lifestyle and Country combined with the amateur standards may have not been much of a motivational calling.
How many have gone home due to "Family reasons or Homesickness?


How many average SL players have done well in the NRL?

Answer = NONE

The NRL Cherry pick the best, Ellis, Burgess I was going to say etc but I dried up with names.

I'm glad you would like to see Tomkins carve up the Aussies. Hopefully if he does, then you'll be the first to lavish praise on him.

I'll "lavish praise" when and where it's due. Run along and get your satchel packed it's school next week. All those year 9 kids must be waiting for your words of wisdom.

Having watched Tomkins on Monday in a supposed MOM performance I'd say he would get smashed in the NRL. Not big enough / fast enough and his laying down tactics would get him nailed in the NRL. Good example of why English RL will remain for the forseeable future a long way behind the Southern Hemisphere.