Were do we do from here?

I think only the wingers, Lomax and Williams from the backs came out with any credit, some of the big name players in the pack like Hodgson and Sam Burgess disappointed.

Think the pack is ok, plenty of depth, need better centres or at least the current ones to improve as not much else out there and find a partner for Williams

Easy mistake to make when you're sat half a mile away in that awful stadium.
I had the advantage of seeing it in close up on TV

Not sure I agree with all of that but certainly do with the sentiment. What winds me up is for the last few years when we slip, say, 8 points behind and the game is starting to slip away but we are still just in it we play the same way rather than mixing it up and causing a fight. On the rare occasions we have had Oz on the back foot they have always done that to break the momentum. We play like idiots and unsurpringly end up with the same result each time. Sad thing is we're falling back not progressing.

With the 2nd one with Hodgson I think at least he was taking into account their was only about 50 secs left of the half so was trying to deliberately go for extra yardage on his kick because they would only have 2/3 tackles before the hooter. The first one from Widdop was just dreadfully unnecessary.

All the more reason to play safe. Take the ball in 5 times and put a good kick in.

Back from a thoroughly depressing game.

We created chances and spilled the ball 4 times when almost over the line or down the wing during breaks.

Missed touch with two pen kicks- awful.

Missed tackles we should have made in the centre channels.

We did lots right but made far too many mistakes yet again.

The reasons WB was brought in: smarter plays, better game management, better discipline. We appear to have gone backwards.

The big thing I was disappointed with from the start was line speed and aggression. Far too slow closing down them in defence, almost zero speed when taking the ball up in attack. The absolute basics we should be doing to use our strength in the forwards.

All this great work in training- none of it visible.

I really think Shaun Wane would have had them ripping in to the aussies in defence and attack.

I see for the 20th year in a row our pack was just as good as theirs

The truth is, Australia's 4th choice pack would be as good as ours

Regards

King James

Yes. Totally agree. The pattern us we have a couple of big guys who do some good work early on. The supposedly inferior Aussie forward just keep coming in relentlessly for 80 minutes and by about 60 minutes are in total and utter control.

Then after the players have a good old laugh with there Aussie mates,,
Simply not good enough,,crying like school girls instead of getting in to them in first half,,,Watkins looked like he was apologising to the Aussie kicker he took out late after he had a go at him.
Then when the game is up we want to play tough guys.

NZ have beaten Aus by playing off the cuff RL with a lot of offloading.
We actually seemed to have the edge on the Aussies out wide, Dugan can't defend at centre and GI kept overcompensating for holmes and leaving gaps.
At the same time our pack was well beaten.
Why we attacked the edges LESS in the second half is a complete joke.

Also we will never win any test match defending our line like we did in the last 30. I mean not numbering up on a scrum?! you would have a go at an under 12s team for that.

Just on the Wayne Bennett front - those who were expecting better tactics, set plays, game management etc, are barking up the wrong tree - that's not his strong point. His greatest strength is his man management - he's always surrounded himself with various assistants who cover the game plan/tactics, fitness, technique etc - he's the calming influence, the words of wisdom, the motivator to 'be the best you can'.

For motivation I'd have Wane any day of the week.

I did cringe at that. Keith Senior would have dropped Cronk for giving him that much spray.

I think personally I'd have gone Williams and Gale and given them all three games. While I get the point your making I think you've got to bear in mind Bennett gets more than just games to asses the players on.

I think the fact he had Williams only on the bench suggested two things to me. He doesn't trust him or know him, so likely went for Bett's pick in Brown, and after 4 weeks of camp and games he was no closer to working out his best pairing.

I do however agree with Bennetts comment that we are good enough to win but we don't put it together.

There was no one player in the aussie team that were head and shoulders above ours.

They play consistent, they play pretty much error free, they take their chances.

We made as many chances, we didn't take them. Some individuals made more mistakes.

Take cam smith or Thurston and put him in our team, we wpuld still lose as collectively we make too many errors across the park.

Frustrating as hell.

Honestly felt like I was watching a re-run of any game between England and Aus in the last 10 years. So disappointing. And of course with this being Rugby League we have to wait a full year before we can have another crack.

Clearly the main thing we lack is direction from our halves. Can't believe I'm going to say this but I reckon Matty Smith would have offered more. Was he unlucky not to get a call up after a successful international campaign last year?

Agree Smith would offer a whole lot more than Widdop. Widdop is just poor. Never seen anything in him to suggest he should play international rugby league.

The biggest disappointment for me was the pack. The backline actually did pretty well, and the halves were garbage but we already knew that (Kevin Brown ffs, he wouldn't get a gig at any top 4 team). However we thought we would have the upper hand (or at least a level one) in the forwards, and actually we got bullied. Hill and Graham did what they always do, and Bateman at least had a dig, but the rest were terrible. Sam Burgess is a husk of the player that went to Union, and his brothers might look the part, but there at at least half a dozen props not picked that should be in the side before them. Whitehead I think is good enough but wasn't at the races today, and Cooper is a perfectly decent player, but as with the Burgesses you have to wonder if he would have ever played for England if he hadn't gone to the NRL.

As for the rest of the team, Lomax did some pretty good things, McGillvray was the best winger on the pitch by a mile and then some, Hall is dependable but seems to have lost his pace, I would prefer Briscoe there tbh. Brown isn't and never has been good enough at this level (I don't want to sound too harsh on the guy, he's a great pro and has had a good career, but he really isn't), Widdop is not much better.

The halfback situation is the biggest worry ahead of the world cup. As bad as the pack were we do have plenty of option there, but it's hard to see how we can improve the halves. In hindsight I would have liked to see Williams alongside either Smith or Sneyd. Both have limitations but at least there offer a kicking game and a little bit of direction. Hopefully someone emerges next season. I've got high hopes for Declan Patton from what I've seen, but he does have some way to go. Or maybe look at moving Lomax to 6 with Shaul getting a chance at full back.

Been saying the same about Widdop for years, and been ridiculed often for it. People think because he's playing in the NRL, he must be great, he's far from it. He's a manufactured half. Yes he's used to playing against NRL defences, he's also used to losing against them and creating bugger all in terms of chances for his team - he's very much brought his NRL form from the last 2 years with him. GARBAGE!

He a typical Melbourne 'support act'. Knows how to play to a strict game plan (Thus allowing Cronk, Smith and Slater to do their thing), and will never divert from it, playing his simple role in the Melbourne team, he looked effective. But it was clear he was never going to be a top class playmaker in his own right. So many clubs have been burnt spending a fortune on players who look great in the Melbourne system, but who are gash once they leave it. Kevin Proctor is another who's just signed for big money with the Titans - watch him go there and be a steady Eddie like nearly all the others that leave Melbourne.

Some very valid points there. I was a bit worried about us getting a dud when we signed Mahe Fonua for the reasons you mention, but he seems to be an exception.

Widdop is very frustrating to watch. He clearly has a lot of ability, but doesn't seem to have the first clue how to put the pieces together.

I go with this. We just don't have the depth. Kids who are good at sport tend to be good at more than one, and if they are going to try for professional standard it eventually comes down to the one they a) have an aptitude for and b) can actually make pay. The rewards for playing pro-RL are too low if you can turn you and to something else. I always think of a player like Stephen Myler, a fringe SL player who managed to carve a very decent career out of RU because what he could do was well rewarded in RU.

In an alternative universe, Tomkins and Lomax would have played predominantly in the halves for their clubs, Kyle Eastmond would still be playing RL and Danny Brough would not be pretending he's Scottish, and we would look pretty good at 6 and 7. We may even have won today.

It's like we lost a whole generation of potential international halves by being obsessed about putting them at FB. You could maybe add ratchford to that list also.

The scary thing is there's virtually nothing coming through the Junior system to replace those who've played today.

Ben Currie, if he ever fully recovers from his injury
Oliver Gildart is a prospect but is probably too light for international centre
Tom Johnstone and Dom Manfredi on the wings

but who else is there. . . . ?

As a sport we've made decisions that are shrinking our player base to critical levels and we've all but destroyed the player pathways. Removing any kind of selective process below age U16 and disbanding the Reserves has mortaly wounded the development process. Even if we reversed those decions tomorrow it will take 5 to 10 years before the system starts showing signs of recovery.

The RFL, The Community Game, BARLA and most of all the club centric, selfish CEOs need to pull their heads out from up their derrières and soon or they'll be no point in holding international competitions.

I'd say one lesson, particularly for the backs is that we are some way off in strength and conditioning (again). Joe Burgess, Hardaker and now Percival are way too lightweight. Even Kallum Watkins if he played in Aus would probably add another half stone.

Halfback is clearly our biggest problem. Our best hope for next year vat least is Tomkins getting fit and (wherever he plays) adding some potency out wide. Its possible Aussiegate may rear its head though, as Bennett was clearly unimpressed by the options available.

Our error rates are way too high. The Burgess twins are always liable to drop the ball cold at some stage, and Sam also. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though as I think we'll see a bigger and stronger Sam Burgess next year. He lost a lot of power trying to become a Union centre and hasn't had an off season to bulk up.

As for Bennett, he went with a squad which was largely expected. His aim is next year's WC, and he's a very smart operator. I suspect he will have given all the squad goals for next year, but for some there won't be a second chance. He will basically used this tournament as an opportunity to see what players can do, and how they react on the big stage. I sort of see where he's coming from when he talks about confidence - a lot of our mistakes come from players pushing things in a way they wouldn't in club games.

As for those suggesting Wane. Please. His up and at 'em approach failed miserably in successive WCC games (including making Roosters reserve grade halfbacks look like the best in the world). He has zero experience of winning against the best, and virtually none of coaching against them. Ditto every other SL coach. I still think getting Bennett is a massive coup - if anything for this 4N it was a year too late.