it would have some reasoning behind it, except we dont have the same teams as we did then.

My point is that the people who are making excuses now were the first people to shout down those who pointed out reasons as to why last seasons figures were inflated.

And now you are doing the same thing but from the other side. Making excuses about why the attendances have risen.

Attendances werent inflated, they were what they were, we dont need to make excuses for them. Last year wasnt a freak occurence, we have seen year on year rising attendances for a long time now.

If we are so desperate for context, then why arent we looking at comparisons not only from now to last year, but to the year before that, and the year before that, and so on.

Why arent we, for context, comparing attendances now to those in 2001, or those in 1998? Why are we worrying about attendances being down on last year when using a trolls incomplete and incorrect exagerrated figures but not celebrating that those figures, even whilst slightly down on last year are among the best the game has ever posted in its entire history?

Sorry, I assumed you knew the answer to your own question. I expect attendances are nearer to the maximum than the minimum.

Does this preclude debating issues like Salford's attendance figures?

Once again, whilst I admire your dedication to defending the reputation of RL against anything that could be construed as less-than-perfect, you really ought to stop worrying about what people write on here - I can assure you the game is no worse or better off as a result of either our whining or your spirited defence.

Pardon me for not celebrating as you suggest above, I'm right out of champagne this week, but I'll risk the home brew later.

So hardly the dire crisis you have been propagating then. Clearly not a game which should be damaged so that those at the top can be replaced, and your whole woe-is-me attitude towards the game is clearly either based on a wilful misrepresentation of the facts or lies to further your personal agenda with individuals.

But then you wouldnt want to celebrate Super League posts 2nd best attendances over 1st four rounds but wallow in boo hoo Salford got a bad attendance, the games is going to die i hate nigel wood childish nonsense.

why then worry about GDP figures, because despite them not rising in recent 1/4s they are still among the highest the country has ever seen?

Its because we need growth! the game as it is in its current form is NOT sustainable. How many clubs have had financial trouble over the past 3 or 4 years? how many are being kept afloat by a rich owner? the answer to those is a hell of a lot higher than how many can go on like they are!

Also, with attendances dropping this year of all years, with a world cup in our own country, a year when things should be on a high leading into this event, is very concerning! Added together with the general fan apathy at the way the game is run, the format of our league and the relative success of other sports at the same time it doesnt make impressive reading for rugby league as a sport.

I tend to split League fans into two groups, reachers and settlers. Reachers tend to want our game to expand, they do this by seeing where are game is weak and want to improve on that. Settlers think everything is okay, and focus on the positives whilst covering over the negatives(even using those positives to disprove any argument against the negatives).

I see everything that is good with this sport, trust me. I have had the discussion with many union fans about our game, but i also see the massive problems, and there are massive problems!

The key to any sport bar football is how many fans turn up each week! when that starts to drop when everything suggests it should be rising, then you know there is a problem!

We have a massive chance to get it right with the world cup in england this year, so far we are not getting it right.

Why indeed. You will find many economists who will tell you an obsession with growth in GDP isnt a good thing. But that isnt relevant to our game.

We do need growth, but it doesnt happen instantaneously. It doesnt happen today. We have seen year on year growth for about 15 years now. Thats pretty good. Even if we drop back a bit this year, it doesnt mean we are on the wrong track. 1 year falling out of 15 growing isnt wrist-slitting time.

There isnt general fan apathy. THere is an overly vocal minority of people who are needlessly negative. You seem to want to have it both ways. Dismissing last years very good growth because of one off factors, but then not appreciating those one off factors into this years relative decline. If those one of factors were the explanation for last years rise, then the fact that this year we are higher than we were in 2011 shows us that either those one of factors have left a lasting positive legacy or those one of factors only explained a part of last years increases and this year, as last, was simply part of the long term trend of growth the game is seeing.

The effect of the world cup isnt this year, it was never going to be this year .It is next year.

I want the game to expand, i want attendances to rise, believe me im not against doing things to improve the game. I think we can be much further forward, i see no reason that SL cannot be the 2nd biggest league competition in the country. None at all and im not going to make excuses for failing clubs, there are clearly improvements to be made, and there are clearly clubs that need to do more. But we need some context and perspective, a small fall this year from last isnt going to kill the game, if it is higher than 2011 then that is probably a decent position to be in. Especially because of what has happened at Salford and what is happening at London. But complaining about those issues not being resolved right now isnt going to help anyone. This season is pretty much a write off from Salford, next year is the crucial one for them, london need a plan, they seem to be drifting at the moment.

But if you look in the wider context of a game which has grown exponentially over the last 10 or 15 years, we arent in a terrible position. We are in a good one, just one which could be so much better. But we dont need to over egg the pudding to show this, we dont need Agent Provocatroll's fudged, made up, cherry picked and just plain wrong statistics to show this.

If we ignore the growth we have had, ignore the improvements which have been made, if we ignore the positives and focus only on the negatives, whether as a troll like Mr Eve, whether as some wierd cynic with personal vendettas like RLbandit, with blind hatred like Starbug, or out of genuine concern we risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater and undoing our good work simply because it isnt perfect

As for the world cup, we are 8 months aware, why are we inventing scenarios in which it is a big negative? Its of no use. We can spend this time spreading the word, talking to people, talking it up,getting your mates to go to a couple of games, see if work colleagues want to go to some, be excited and enthusiastic about it, get other people excited and enthusiastic about it and we never know it might turn out brilliant. And if it doesnt and it goes badly, no-one is going to thank you for talking it down for 8months and moaning and whining about it just because you get a chance to say 'i told you so'. If we as a fan base dont make this WC a success the only ones who will suffer will be us.

Some of us are more perceptive than others and can better perceive what a future under Nigel Wood holds

This.

It's funny how you accuse so many posters of having their screws loose in one form or another, and yet you seem to turn everything into a personal attack on other posters more than anyone else on these boards. Stop and think about that.

Or you are just moaning for the sake of moaning again.

You confirm your personal vendetta with most things you say. Im not sure you could class 'weird cynic' as a personal attack. William Eve is a troll and pretty honest about it. He doesnt really pretend not to be. And starbug would pretty readily admit his intense dislike (if you feel hatred is too strong a word) of the RFL.

For someone so willing to be so aggressively negative about Nigel Wood, you are awfully sensitive.

, My only contribution to this thread is to post the Championship averages each week , which somebody asked for , I havent commented either way

I think whether or not you hate the RFL would quite possibly be the most pointless argument we have had yet.

I dont hate them , I admire them , how they can manage to keep their well paid jobs and keep making cock ups is quite amazing

INOUT

Not sure where you got 151k from as this week (Rnd 3) last year included in the WCC. The SL game on the Sat didn't get 151k.

In that instance, it's not a fair comparison anyway as the figure for 2012 you have is almost certainly taken from a Sat/Sun game and not a Fri night game.

last season the WCC was round 3. This season it was round 4.

The wire v Catalans game this year wasnt a friday night game.

[uRounds 1 to 4 Fixtures (comparison between 2013 and 2011 - 24 fixtures, not including Widnes)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 220,648 (Avg: 9,194)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2011 = 234,368 (Avg: 9,765)
% decrease = -5.85%

It's a drop.....but not a massive one and can be recovered once the sun starts to shine....summer rugby and all that..

Smokey - you are a shining light in the dark winter months. I haven't laughed at a persons response to simple stats as much as this - ever. Please don't ever stop being owned on here as I fear attendances on RLFANS would drop.

By the way Smokey do you mind if I forward your details onto George Osborne?

The 151,000 is from when Warrington played Catalans last year, also shown on tv, it was in August time not Round 3.

Is the answer to this thread that apart from a few circumstances, crowds are roughly the same?

Its also a flawed and incorrect comparison that doesnt compare like for like, has been deliberately chosen and cherry picked by a troll and still not really very big.

In most of the comparisons there havent even been the same amount of games, and the ones that do mean we have to conveniently ignore a sides attedances.

Slightly down on last year, exaggerated by the fact we are still missing a fixture, and even more exaggerated by the fact that fixture is a home game for the 2nd best attended side in the league. Up on pretty much every other year ever (unless of course we choose to ignore some sides attendances because they are inconveniently high).

But then 2nd best attended first four rounds in history doesnt get the morons baying for blood.

That is irrelevent Jonny, as it doesnt help the posters personal agenda.
He/She would like a return to the days when the team that finished top won the big prize and ALL games we "meaningfull" and not "just qualifying rounds".
Therefore, no allowance can be made for weather, ecconomic climate, unreasonable TV schedules etc, these just cover up the face that nobody wants to watch competetive top level sport on a weekly basis.
He/she also doesn't realise that there can only be 1 winning team, therefore the rest of the clubs would be better off playing darts and dominos in their local club